Firefighters contract decision delayed again by Fairbanks City Council
Published Tuesday, June 24, 2008
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Stumble It!Monday’s City Council meeting marked the fifth time the firefighters contract was under discussion.
And still there is no answer because the council pushed back the vote on the contract to the next City Council meeting on July 7.
In the meantime, the council will hold an executive session on the contract.
“I think this has become a battle that has nothing to do with the fire department anymore,” said Dominic Lozano, president of the Firefighters Association.
Just five weeks ago, the council went ahead with a vote against the contract, despite protests from John Eberhart, Mayor Strle and Tonya Brown that the council should wait until all members were present.
Councilman Bernard Gatewood was detained from the May 19 meeting by a meeting with the Drug and Alcohol Board in Barrow.
He was unable to participate in the meeting via teleconference.
“We owe it to the firefighters to do business in a timely manner,” Vivian Stiver said on May 19.
Stiver voted to go ahead with the vote on May 19.
But last night, Stiver advocated pushing the decision back to allow the council to explore the contract even further.
Bernard Gatewood, Llyod Hilling and Chad Roberts all agreed.
Councilman John Eberhart spoke out in protest.
“We could hold executive sessions until the cows come home, but we have enough information here to make a decision to vote on this tonight,” he said.
The council could have called for an executive session at any time over the last few months, according to city attorney Herb Kuss.
What remains in question is the funding of the contract and the call for a minimum of 10 men on duty at all times.
At Wednesday’s finance committee meeting, City Finance Director Jim Soileau and Strle presented a funding plan that brought the contract into the city budget by tapping into revenue sharing from the state.
Still, council members remained skeptical about how the city could afford the contract.
Councilman Llyod Hilling gave a generous 20-minute response to the topic, but summed it up with one of his opening quotes: “At the absolute least, we should decline in good faith and go back to the table.”
Hilling also remarked on unrelated concerns that pregnant firewomen assigned to light-duty work was an unnecessary cost on the city.
“There is nowhere near enough light-duty work available,” Hilling said.
Throughout the one hour, 27 minute discussion on the contract, Lozano’s poker face did little to hide his disappointment with the council’s decision.
“Comments by some of the council members were so disappointing and frankly uncalled for,” Lozano said. “I think it’s unfortunate that some council members can walk in and be so uninformed and uncaring.”
Lozano questioned the motives of some council members on their decision to postpone the vote to the next city council meeting.
“To postpone the meeting again is just a tactic to wait for another meeting when other members aren’t there, and I can’t understand what else there is to discuss,” he said.
Until July 7, the Firefighters can only hope for the best, prepare for the worst and expect the unexpected on behalf of the contract.
Contact staff writer Rebecca George at 459-7504.
Community Discussion
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“Comments by some of the council members were so disappointing and frankly uncalled for,” Lozano said. “I think it’s unfortunate that some council members can walk in and be so uninformed and uncaring.”
Mr. Lozano, are you new to politics or new to Fairbanks? Check out some the comments made by people that you and your membership protect.
http://newsminer.com/news/2008/jun/22/ex...
Hey BigMIke ... good one!
Lozano and his gang are just looking to line their pockets and get nervous when it isn't easy.
Privatize it and the EMT services .... will cut the cost in half. The watch to see how many of those on board today stay on board ... very few.
Hey James, years ago people like you who dislike everything about public service conned the community into "privatizing" the utilities. Guess what? Look at your electric/water/phone/sewer bill and tell us it cut the cost in half.
How many men do you thing would be in a squad if the unions ran the U.A. Army? What if they REALLY had to put their lives on the line every day. What do you think the rate of pay would be? Someone needs to take our fireman/women and shake them unitll the brain starts to work again. WE can only pay so much for their "services". Even the courts have agreed if you cant afford it you dont have to pay it. If we cant make a reasonable deal then stop dealing, PEROID.
Lets talk for an hour and a half about when we should vote, good god man.
Big Mike, When you privatize something somebody wants to make a profit. If you have looked at your water bill, wait you're not a city resident, but look at the property you own in the city. How much have your rates increased since the "worthless" water and sewer were given away by a now convicted felon. I know several people who work for the utilities and their wages or benifits have not gone down. But the riverview mafia are all millionaires of this deal.
But back to story. This is no longer about the contract. This is about a council woman who lost an election and can't let that go. Ms. Stiver had enough information to vote it down when she had the votes to do so. But when a full council is present she needs more time. Well I shouldn't expect anything less. So you all have a good day. I'm going to enjoyit and be happy. You should try it.
More good reason not to live in the city.
The City Council should do its job and vote on the contract. Stringing these guys along is just a show of bad faith. Like it or not, the firefighters have a contract, so the City Council needs to deal with the issue.
Let's set the terminology straight and use the gender-neutral term "firefighter" Mr. Hilling, and if you wish to refer to me, the only woman on the department, say "female firefighter". I was unaware til recently that my uterus was up for public discussion. If it'll get the contract passed, I'll pull that sucker out today. I do apologize for the public inconvenience of my fertility...mothers are such a bother anyways.
Are you kidding me?! Is this a joke? DID SOMEONE ACTUALLY QUESTION WHETHER A PREGNANT FIREFIGHTER ON LIGHT DUTY IS "AN UNNECESSARY COST"?! Frankly, that is embarrassing and patently offensive. What is this, 1955? How come none of you picked up on that?! What on Earth is wrong with the City of Fairbanks? This is a political game between Stiver, who give no thought to anyone that makes a wage for a living and still licks her wounds from her failed election bid, and the Mayor--who won. So get over it. It seems like a fair contract to me- concessions on both sides. The city's negotiating team agrees. Vote on it and give them the damn contract. This is stupid.
It's called NEGOTIATION. And it took 2 1/2 years. FOR A THREE YEAR CONTRACT. I mean, that alone is embarrassing. You don't negotiate for that long without a give and take on both sides. Here's the bottom line- the firefighters could probably say they'd take a 50% cut in pay, and those three council members would vote against the contract. They could agree to remove health care altogether, and those 3 council members would vote against it. That's a little thing called BAD FAITH.
These folks aren't overpaid. They do us a good service and all they're asking for is a fair contract. This isn't even a great contract for them. It's just a decent one.
So then you have no problem with leaving pregnant firefighters high and dry with no pay? Hilling should be booted from the council for that comment alone.
Mr. Hilling sealed his re-election fate...first he owes no one respect, now he is against women because they can get pregnant. How can a community leader represent us in this way? Is this who we want representing us? Impeach him now. He obviously knows less about the fire department then he does about economics.
Then again, Stiver kicked a little kid off the sidewalk selling lemonade...called the police. Is she a good representative of our comminty? Who ever runs against these two should have a hey-day with TV ads. I can't wait to this election.
I have already posted all I have to say about this issue. Most of the negative bloggers offer no accurate information, no statistics and no facts. they won't respond to direct questions. It is pointless to debate with them because the offer no credible insight. Just conjecture and opinion, nothing tangible. Any readers who feel uninformed, contact the fire chief, contact the Mayor, contact the union and ask questions. Get informed and ignore the hate mongers on here.
firebabe517 - Congratulations!
As for Hilling's comments I can't think of anything that would have been more questionable for him to say. Last time I checked it was illegal to fire a woman for being pregnant, I would much rather see a female firefighter on light duty for a while than on an extended maternity leave. What on earth does Hilling suggest that the department do with a pregnant firefighter?
I seem to remember a while ago someone mentioning the fact that the prevention side of things at FFD was understaffed. There wasn't anyone to do inspections and such. I seems that is something a pregnant firefighter could do up until 7 months or so unless they were having a high risk pregnancy.
As for the rest of it, someone needs to call the council's BS and get this taken care of. I agree that this isn't about the contract anymore, and is about political agendas.
I can't believe that a member of the city council would be allowed to discriminate against women based on the fact that they may or can become pregnant. To make women into a liability based on gender alone. Are we back in the 50’s? Women are very capable of being firefighters and are by no means a liability to the city's budget. Female firefighters are after all are firefighters and only want the chance to do the job they love. The last thing anyone needs is this way of thinking, especially from someone representing their employer (The City of Fairbanks).
I hope that eventually the council will quit playing games with our brave heroes and treat them with the respect that all civil servants deserve. Keep up the great work Fairbanks Fire you truly make this community a safer place to live and work.
I have to wonder where all the negativity and personal judgment of fire fighters comes from. It is certainly not the opinion of anyone I know or work with. I agree with conspiracytheorist I hope everyone gets informed for themselves.
On one last note I personally would support a sales tax to fun all of our city’s needs. This would help fund the Fire Department and all other city services.
I must say that who knew there would be such embitterment towards firefighters that work for the City of Fairbanks.
Comments made by Councilman Hilling last night at the eventually abbreviated City Council meeting were rather astonishing. The statement about "pregnant" firefighters creating an unncessary burden upon the city budget is anti-feminist (or rather sexist); and if policy were implemented to such effect to affect said cost, would violate Federal legal language contained within the DOL's Family & Medical Leave Act.
Misunderstanding or just ignorantly not accepting contractual vocabulary that isn't in the context of one's tunneled perspective doesn't make for right; or rather I just accept the uncouth comments made by the councilman as normalized by his accounted statement that he was a 'Professor of Economics' at the University of Alaska when in fact he is part-time adjunct or associate faculty teaching a university core class ECON 100X - Political Economy.
C'mon Lloyd, I teach part time for the U also. Doesn't make me a professor.
I have little respect for individuals with lack of respect for others in the context of sex or overinflation of their own virtues or going's on.
However that's enough of one dissenting rant from the People's Republic of Ester, . . . for now.
With comments like those from the city council I'm ashamed to admit I live in Fairbanks.
I know Unreal. All things with this contract aside, Hilling's comments on a pregnant firefighter were so far out from anything rational it's scary.
Yes. Such a pity that working folks have representatives (who VOLUNTEER I understand) standing up for the little guy to help them fight for decent wages and benefits. Would be so much easier just to forget unions altogether and leave the City to rape and pillage their contracts and leave them with half their wages and no benefits, which is what you'd probably love to see. Clearly you've never been a blue collar worker fighting to put food on the table and take sick kids to the doctor.
It's 2008, buddy. Get with the times. It's about time someone stood up for the little guy. This city council is embarrassing.
Exaggeration? Hardly. This is the same body of government that decided to rip out their vacation and gut their health care a few years back (both of which had already been negotiated to and agreed to by the city and the firefighters, but the council didn't really bother itself with those minor details). Get your facts straight. No exaggeration at all. And it's exactly what would happen if that union weren't there. Which is why I support the firefighters. I like to elect folks that actually believe hard work should be rewarded. I live in THIS century.
The point is, this is all politics. Some decent folks who are fair minded and not so hell bent on zero taxes and big breaks for businesses need to run for city council. Preferably a whole bunch of pregnant women.
Bloody heck Mike, it's an expression. You take things waaay too literally.
Maybe I can't fathom how some portions of folks' comments flower their derivations with rather unemperical foundations, i.e. where would privatization save money by removing certain portions of civil infrastructure, why contractual labor aggreements that are biasly used in the form of political powerplay disguised as funding-deficiency, and a faux mass public perception presented by a few outspoken 'bloggers' on DNM's web forum that benefit from the recent transparency in government.
Maybe my background in life & property preservation, which has its roots in the foundings of the insurance industry, has skewed my own perception. My mind, working like an engineer's, would probably lead me to believe most of what is said is 'bunk' by our outspoken comrades just due to the lack any inductive thought process. A piece of datum is presented, skewed by statistics and subjectivity one way or the other, and presented as deduced fact. I love it.
To quote a Gilded Age writer with a flair for reverence of open human frailties and hidden strengths: "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."
I wish Twain was here to bring more temperance to some of these recent debacles of debate.
A pure truth: There is no more negotiating on this contract. It's a yea or nay. Discussion is a good forum to render questionable points if there is a lack of understanding or needed clarification, and the council and the firefighters' union will deliberate on those points before casting their respective poll; however, once it's done, it's done for better or naught.
One opinion in the People's Republic of Ester is done with some more irreverent illumination.
I don't think Hillings comment about having enough light duty work for a pregnant firefighter had anything to do with the proposed increased minimum staffing. There are always going to be (and always have been in recent memory) a minimum staffing requirement. Currently there is a minimum staffing requirement of 9.
I really don't see what the minimum staffing requirement has to do with a firefighter being pregnant. In any business in the US an employer is going to incur expenses when a woman is pregnant.
Using the fact that there potentially isn't enough light duty work for a pregnant firefighter as an excuse not to increase the minimum staffing is deplorable. If that is where Hilling was going with this I agree that his position on the council should be re-considered.
Well, a "few (uh none?) occupations" that are contractual or even chartered that I can think of:
i.) the Geophysical Institute has at least three gauranteed (in its founding charter): a Director, a Secretary, and a Librarian; the rest are researchers, support staff and technicians
ii.) a seimic or say a well-logging crew: a lead (supervisor or log interpreter), a driver/mechanic, possibly a driller; maybe the rest of the roles filled in by lay laborers
iii.) a classroom: at least one teacher; maybe there's an aide too to help with classroom management
iv.) a NASCAR pit crew: C'mon, if you don't how many folks it takes to run a million dollar car . . .
Hmmm, I might even think of a few other occupations, professions or vocations that require some amount of minimal staffing.
C'mon BigMike, I'll tell you my job if you tell me yours.
The difference is that the FD has a written minimum, where as many companies don't, but that doesn't mean that it is any different when someone gets pregnant.
When someone is unable to perform the heavy duty aspects of firefighting, due to pregnancy, injury, illness etc, it doesn't increase the minimum staffing. The minimum staffing is the same, it's just a matter of how much overtime is incurred.
Yes, having a required minimum staffing does mean that if someone can't work that overtime is going to be incurred, but the nature of the fire department means that a minimum number of staff is required. It would be ridiculious to start putting qualifiers on the minimum staffing requirement.
"9 people required at all times, unless someone is pregnant, in that case only 8 people are ok. But if someone is out sick for less than a week or 3 consecutive shifts 9 people is still the minimum. If someone is going to be sick for more than 3 consecutive shifts than 8 is ok"
Uhhhh....yeah....that makes a lot of sense....
In any business when someone is sick, injured or can't work overtime is going to happen, it's a fact of business. Work has to get done, and someone has to do it, even if the regular employee isn't there to do it. The fire department is not unique in this.
What Kris says makes perfect sense, there are a lot more occupations/jobs that have a minimum number of people needed rather than just the fire department.
Bingo BigMike! You are fairly intuitive; however, as one of my more outspoken compatriots on this forum, I never thought BigBrain power equaled mass deductive skills to part opinion upon the collective think that is so wonderfully presented by you speaking on behalf of all of FNSB or the City of Fairbanks.
My opinion is my opinion. I never present it as what the body, a community or organization, represents or has elected to stand for. So I take a venture that the same applies to yourself.
Just remember Twain's quote I threw out there. Anything can be skewed, including your and my opinions. Just don't keep making presumptive attitude a hallmark of your case.
I hope that every pregnant and working woman in Fairbanks will picket the next city council meeting, demanding that Lloyd Hilling step down!
Now I need to go back to school, my comments are written in crayon in comparison to Kris’s. Articulate, literate, and physically fit….and yes ladies he is on the market…LOL
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