City forms committee to ponder alcohol impact zone
Published Tuesday, June 3, 2008
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Stumble It!Fairbanks city Mayor Terry Strle is forming a special committee to discuss an alcohol impact zone, a move aimed at cracking down on chronic inebriation in the area.
The alcohol impact zone would restrict the sale of cheap alcoholic beverages such as malt liquor and single cans of beer within certain areas of Fairbanks. The zone would start at Illinois Street and run south through downtown Fairbanks on Cushman Street to 23rd Street.
Police Chief Dan Hoffman joins Strle on the committee. He defines a chronic inebriate as an individual with a severe substance abuse problem who is frequently under the influence in public and has repeated encounters with detoxification services and other public services, such as police, jail and court services, emergency medical services, public hospital care and involuntary commitment services.
“Fairbanks has a very significant problem,” Hoffman said. “Not only are they at high risk of health and injury to themselves, but they are a drain in the social service agencies that work with them.”
Both Strle and Hoffman say there are many issues involved in tackling the problem, but Hoffman said one thing is clear.
“We desperately need an intervention program that will not only get these people off the streets and into a safe holding place but will also encourage and help them into substance abuse treatment programs,” he said.
In 2007, the Fairbanks Correctional Center’s Title 47/Protective Sleep-off program found 72 percent of the inebriates were male and 28 percent female. The average age of the inebriate at time of treatment was 46.
The highest repeat user of the sleep-off services logged 75 repeated admissions to the Fairbanks Correctional Center. Of the top 25 users of the facilities, the average number of repeat admissions was 16 visits per year.
Other members of the mayor’s new committee would include Councilman Bernard Gatewood and Ellen Ganley, liquor store owner Rudy Gavora and Phil Evans.
Gatewood brings 24 years experience of drug and alcohol counseling to the table and serves on the advisory board for the governor’s council on alcoholism and drug abuse.
“Gatewood is in a position to see the impact of alcohol at different levels,” Strle said.
Gatewood thinks the committee is a good first step.
“We’re trying to come up with a solution to curb alcohol problems,” he said. “We don’t want to be out here just spinning our wheels; we want to make sure whatever we do works.”
Ganley worked as a substance abuse counselor and administrator. Ganley, the president and principal consultant of Information Insights, was also vice chairwoman of the Alaska Alcoholic Beverage Control Board and served as president of the Alaska Public Health Association.
“I think it has potential here in terms of alcoholism and what can be done by local government,” she said. “It’s a good grass-roots type of solution.”
Ganley said she has seen the alcohol impact zone work in larger cities such as Tacoma, Wash., and Seattle.
“We really need to sit and look at what the issues are,” she said. “For instance, it would be easy for people to go out of the area to purchase alcohol.”
Ganley recognizes it is a big step for the city to ask local businesses not to sell certain products.
“There’s a possibility of success, but we need to figure out if that’s what would happen here,” she said.
This special committee is one facet of a project to crack down on chronic inebriation.
Hoffman has researched other possible solutions but said the new committee will focus only on the alcohol impact zones. Committee members will hold a work session before the start of the next City Council meeting.
“This committee will only focus on whether or not the impact zone is something we want to try,” Strle said. “We will not fund anything that isn’t going to be effective.”
Contact staff writer Rebecca George at 459-7504.
Community Discussion
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I'm all for trying to reduce alcohol consumption, but I don't think zones will do any good. This might curb usage in those areas, but people who really want a drink will just hop on a bus or, god forbid, in to a car to get their booze. It seems like it would push the problem from one area to another.
Don't get me wrong though, I think the effects of alcohol consumption is one of the greatest evils of our society, but I am doubtful anything government can do will make a difference.
Would bars or restaurants have to obey the zones as well?
hmmmmm,
I'm not always critcal, and I agree with the sentiments of what City of Fairbanks is trying to do, ...buttttttt.
I tend to agree with Kornmonkie, ... for the chronic user, it isn't absurd to think they (chronic inebriates) could drive (God forbid), walk (Hey at least it's healthy), or catch a cab no more than two blocks out of the City center to buy their booze. Seems to me this plan only pushes the agenda out to the greater Fairbanks (and North Pole, let's be equal here) areas, thereby forcing that administration to deal with the problem. I think this is a City of Fairbanks opportunity, one that needs more thought at present time.
...thanks for allowing my humble opinions.
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I got lost late at night trying to get to my Motel near Sea-Tac Airport in Washington...Very easy to do!
I have never seen so many homeless people. Hundreds of them in All colors, shapes and sizes. In a part of the town that looked like at one time it was a manufacturing center, big buildings boarded up with signs saying "out of business"...Whole families with little kids, hauling around all they own in grocery sacks..Freaked me out completely.
I was raised up here and I know how to deal with Moose, Bears, downtown drunks ect.. But what I saw down there scared the begeezus out of me! They didn't do anything about the problem...they just hid it in parts of town no "Tourist" is supposed to see!!
I have never seen anything like it...Made me ashamed of my country(The richest in the world), we will be judged by how we treat the least of us.
So why would we want to be like Seattle/Tacoma?
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Congratulations to Mayor Strle for taking the first step to address a major problem with our downtown area. Perhaps the committee will recommend the ultimate comprehensive solution: restrict the sale of alcohol to those businesses (package and retail) that have at least 75% of their total sales in food. In effect this rids the area of the cheap booze offered by alcohol-exclusive operations like liquor stores and bars that prey on the chronic inebriate. At the same time it clears the way for theme restaurants, bistros, cafe's, and mid-size grocery operators to do business in a downtown that is welcoming to families, tourists and business alike - Jhammer0
Jhammer0 has an interesting idea, but it won't work. Drunkards downtown have been around since at least 1973 when I got here. I have lost count of how many programs to address the issue have been tried by the City/Borough/State/Native Association, and all failed. First we closed down the bars, then we bulldozed them down, changed bar hours, changed liquor store hours, huge tax increases on alcohol, added vans to haul the drunks to detox, cops to haul them to jail, ambulances to haul them to the the hospital, and guess what? They are still there. I say leave them be, they don't bother me right where they are at.
Ah zeb. Do you feel better? Yup, you really pulled it off! You call'd it like it is and in turn don't have to bother yourself with the issue any more. It is so easy to say it is one race that is out there. Your wrong, but it is easy to "call it like it iz" is'nt it?!? Now why dont "YOU" just take that little sad attitude to AnchorTown...we will try here in FairTown to help others like we would like see done for ourselves if we ever were in their shoes.
so... force the inebriate to buy top shelf instead of cheap?
Yer dead on Zeb! Wonder how long it will take for the News-Miner PC cops to pull your post?
Wake up, this is just an attempt by the Mayor to expand power into the health and social services area. The result will probably be an increase in taxes to help programs that are already funded by the State, feds and Borough governments.
If we have too many car wrecks downtown would not selling cars in that area stop the wrecks? It is not a product problem, its a people problem, like it or not you are going to have to deal with the drunks, not the booze. Where in all these "studys" are the facts about how these people continue to have money to buy,even the cheap stuff. I dont think they get it by working, somewhere someone is GIVING it to them, that is the problem that needs to be stoped.. good luck...
If you make it illegal to sell , problem solved ,,,,,LOL works good for Crack , heroin, pot.. so should work good for cheap booze.. No amount of money, taxes, programs will work work.
Stop enabling these people and they might have a chance. Don't give beggar's money. Don't give these people a place to sober up , Close Ralph Purdue back down, Close down the soup kitchens.
If folks would have , kissed,hugged and coddled me . I won't have never gotten clean and sober...
The 12 step meetings are free
Isn't rehabilitation something that someone has to want enough for it to take hold? If that's true, any amount of forcing drunks to do anything wont help, neither will coddling.
Muldoon- are you saying let's bring back prohibition? Or at least just for cheap alcohol?
LOL kudos jeb, for having a pair...youmustbeconfused: yes you must be...
When I lived "in town", I woke up one morning to find a "drunk" passed out on my lawn. He woke up quickly when I turned my garden hose on him. Last I saw of him he was hauling butt down the road with my neighbors german shepard after him. I loved that dog.
Zeb is correct. And although they arent all native, I would say at least 80% are. I have nothing against natives but its simply the way it is and I wish there was something we could do about it. Stoping certain alcohol sales isnt that fix. Dr_Muldoon is correct, making something illegal doesnt fix the problem, and I really dont see how this would have ANY effect on the problem. The only difference I can see is the liquor stores making a little more money on the higher priced items, higher theft rates of alcohol and less money for these people to spend on things they actually need.
I think the BIG issue here isn't so much the drunks. I think the concern should be the fact the government IS going to mandate what you can or cannot buy or sell. Big brother is slowly taking a firm grip on our freedoms and we are letting him. Come on people, lets open our eyes here. Do you really want to be told where you can or cannot do something as simple as buy a single bottle of beer?
Might as well do whatever you want City. Once you let the FDA tear down all the neat bars that tourist used to come to see, Fairbanks was dead to me. I spend NO time downtown, and shop on the edges of town at Freds or Safeway. Downtown Fairbanks might as well not exsist to me. When I have tourist come up from the states, I might drive them through, but I remind them, theis is where the vibrant downtown Fairbanks USED TO BE!! Do what you want, be as racist as Selma, Alabama, I spend no time there anymore anyway.
i'm one of your chronic enebriates who has survived, sobered up (3 years now) and gotten off the streets.
first.... i'm NOT native. the ones i hung out with and drank with tended to not be native either. it isn't just a native problem. i guess you just see them better. i, for instance, went out of my way to make sure i didn't look like a homeless person. also, us nonnatives tend to travel alone or with one other, and not in groups.
second is.... don't worry about the chronic enebriates just jumping in a car to go buy their cheap booze. i assure you they don't have access to cars. even finding enough money for both the cheap booze and bus fare is tough.
third... don't give money to beggers? believe or not, that may just increase the petty theft problem.
a main drink of choice out there is not cheap wine or 40's of high alcohol beer. it's whiskey or vodka. that's what you have to stop selling. though i assure anything with alcohol in it will do. the cheap wine or beer is good for a starter or to stave off the symptoms of dt's or a base case of the shakes. but the really drunk ones you'll find have been drinking whiskey or vodka.
this restricting types of alcohol will not have any effect. you cannot stop these people from doing this. you can only hope they move elsewhere. muldoon had a good idea. move the soup kitchens to the part of town you would like to see these people move. closing it would just mean they would eat even less than they do now. but if you move the soup kitchens you give the enebriates even one less reason to be in the downtown core area. also, you can shut down the pawn shops in the core area. they are one source of money for their activities.
they are not tied to the downtown core are for any magical reason. they are there because they get the services they need there. also the downtown area is a convenient area to hook with the ones you "run" with for the day. that all can be moved.... so now.... which area of town do we want them to move to?
Im being sarcartic... prohibition didn't work
The city "zone" won't work ...
Clay do you think the laws making drugs illegal solved the problem?
If the city stops selling cheap booze from Illinois to 23th .
Bentley Mall Safeway should be happy , lots of panhandlers and homeless drunks, buy at that store, and sleep in woods behind mall. Its been going on for decades.
I was thinking a cheap booze store on 24th, should have good customer base, maybe set up a blue tarp camp behind it..
exchronic, thanks for your input and congratulations on be free for 3 years. What got you to turn it around?
KingFisher907, thanks for letting us know what kind of person you are.
See, I believe people like exchronic should be the ones Strle (sp?) talks to when trying to find solutions. Those who have been the chronic drunks seen around town, who have sobered up and found a way to do so; these should be our "experts" the local government talks to. In my opinion, they have lived and breathed the issues we're talking about, so who better to get suggestions/ideas from???
And also, congrats to you exchronic, for staying sober 3 years, keep up the good work.
Thrifty Liquor,which is located on the corner of Airport and Cushman, in my opinion is the catalyst for many drunkards in one particular area of town. This package store really doesn't serve any purpose other than to make the owner wealthy at the expense of those that obviously can't help themselves. At any given time of the day, one can observe the inebriants who hang out in that parking lot or hide in the bushes along the airport road side of that building chugging their Alaska koolaid ( Oly pop ). I have talked to many residents and business owners in that area who are sick and tired of the migration of drunks who roam that neiborhood while urinating in the middle of the streets and littering their yards with their spent booze bottles. I have personaly counted ten in one group last week that were strung out hooting and hollering along Mary Ann street all hobbling southward to who knows where in their drunken stupor. I also lay blame on Native Corporations who could do more for their own people. The corporations have plenty of money these days,their elders/leaders need to combine their strategy and money along with those in public office here to form a task group to help clean up their own back yard so to speak. This problems has gone on for generations now hopefully someone very soon will rise up in the Native community and address the issue and make a positive change for their people.
Exchronic, I was glad to see your post! You know more about the problem than any of the other posters.
Good point about the pawn shops. And also the fact that the types of liquor proposed to be controlled are not the types commonly used by the downtown folks.
I hope you will post again and offer more suggestions. How did YOU get sober? What do you think will help the folks who are caught up in this lifestyle?
I have a close friend who was a street drunk for many years (now sober.) I know the vast majority of these folks aren't downtown drinking because they want to be. They just don't know how to get free.
I do think there is value in detox places and treatment programs, because at least it helps them get the alcohol out of their system so they can think straight. But so many of them have nothing to go back to, and everyone they know also drinks.
We have to find some realistic ways of helping.
I've seen some wonderful success stories through Reformers Unanimous, which has chapters in Fairbanks and at FCC and Northstar Center. There are other programs also that help some people. How can we encourage folks to get into these programs? What else can we do to help?
hmmm.. I don't want to deminish the obvious problem, and I appreciate the Mayor's tenacity in trying to find an answer - but I've always been a little uncomfortable about laws that create zones, age restrictions, etc., for the sake of trying to manage select individuals unable (or unwilling) to excersize moderation and self dicipline.
During the 80's I worked at a local sporting goods store selling firearms and amunition. I was taught to notice anything out of the ordinary with regards to my customers, and that as a seller I had the right to refuse sale. It's too bad liquor stores don't excercise the same prudence.
Count me as one who will watch and wait to see what results from this program.
-RK
YUKON JOHN is right about the death of downtown. When the powers that be tried to make downtown like anywhere USA...that was the end. The drunks will always be in downtown USA. At least they were in one spot. To the powers that be...enjoy your downtown, you killed it.
I say try it...it can't make the problem any worse. The City has to do something to fix this problem...this may not be the solution but perhaps in conjunction with other efforts. I bet they don't have access to cars and won't drive elsewhere.
Thank you Exchronic for your input, I knew you were out there. It takes a lot of inner strength to face controversy amongst quick to stereotype individuals.
Knowledge is extremely powerful and for you to share with us what you know about the problems are appreciated.
Keep up the good work by remaining free from the grips of alcohol.
i am an alaskan native living in new jersey, i lived in fairbanks for many years i feel verrry hurt that some people say alaska natives are only drunks. first of all look around so many people in alaska drink and u just use that excuse that only natives drink well think again... just casue we were rasied diffrentlly dose'nt mean were bad people thats called rasisim... so get over it and there are so many people who drink....!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's not just a Native problem, although it's easy for some of us to point a finger and say it's "their" issue, not ours. Some people do this because it leaves them free from the responsibility of doing something about the problem, and others feel better about themselves by pointing the finger at someone else and saying "you're the problem." Doesn't seem to me like either one is a healthy approach for our community, and frankly, I'm tired of seeing this labeled as a "Native" issue. I am honored to know as many non-alcoholic people who are Native as I do non-Native people who are non-alcoholic.
As far as it being just an attempt by the Mayor to expand power into the health and social services area, I think it is the Mayor's responsibility to address this issue in our community. One only has to read the police blotter, visit a local mortuary, or work with families who are impacted by alcohol, to understand the devastating impact of alcohol. I totally support any move in this direction--most specifically, a well-funded treatment program, not just for alcohol, but for drug abuse (specifically a meth treatment program). It's easy to play armchair critic--it's much more tough to actually become involved and make a positive change.
Exchronic--I think you should contact the Mayor and see what you can do to help!
Perhaps the best way to encourage folks to take advantage of Reformers Unanimous in the community (not just the corrections system) is to offer this program through a forum which does not display "hellfire and damnation" and hate messages on their reader boards...this tends to scare a lot of folks away from what could be a valuable program.
There are also churches which offer "Celebrate Recovery" groups, specifically Friends Community Church and Journey Christian Church.
Help is available; however, our community does not have the resources available to immediately help people who are struggling with addiction. There are long wait lists and a lack of resources for those who are reaching out for help, and there is not enough funding to address this issue.
Personally, I do not want to see one more person freeze to death in the middle of winter, be victimized because of their inebriation, suffer casualty because of another's choice to drink and drive, or another family suffer the impact of substance abuse in our community.
I think the Mayor is heading in the right direction by asking the question "What can we do about this?"
kitty1926, its not racism its just a simple fact that if you walk around downtown fairbanks, most of the people walking around drunk happen to be native.
I'm not saying natives are the only ones with this problem of alcholism, but the topic at hand has to do with an the groups of people in the downtown area who are stumbling around, the majority of them being native.
i can tell you how i made the change from a decade long homeless drunk to a fully employed law abiding contributing member of society... but many of you won't like the answer. first of all, i realized that i was dying... and quickly. i didn't know if i was going to make it through another winter (many of my street running buddies had already passed on). i tried everything you can imagine to get sober and nothing i did worked. the fact is the problem of addiction is too big for any one person to handle on their own. no amount of will power or positive thinking can cure this malady. God got and keeps me sober now. but god alone wasn't enough. i needed a combination of god's help and human help (god mostly works through people). i found all the human help i needed in AA. that was MY solution. doesn't have to be everyones. all i can say is that alcoholism and drug addiction is far too much for one person to tackle on their own. no amount of will power or positive reinforcement will work. it is easily the most misunderstood disease on earth. for those of you who insist that god is just a crutch for the weak or just a superstition.... i have evidence proving otherwise.
as far as offering help in solving this problem. i would be glad to help in anyway i can. part of my recovery plan is to give back what i have been so freely given. however, i'm no social worker or psychology phd. i'm no expert, i've just been there, done that is all. i do have a degree, but it is in another field.
here's another interesting tidbit about the native chronic street drunks. many of them are just here on vacation. they come to fairbanks or anchorage from their homes in the village because they are bored (no jobs etcetera) and they stay and drink and party with their friends and family for a few months... then they go back home for a while. in fairbanks it is easy to hook up with friends and family from other villages in one spot. besides, many of the villages they come from are dry. so the villages have done what you are suggesting we try and do in fairbanks.... outlaw alcohol and just move the problem elsewhere. natives are the most (extended) family oriented group of people i have ever seen, anywhere.
exchronic--thank you for REALLY trying to open the eyes of some of Fairbanks residents, people will still only see what they want to see though. MOST of the inebriates seen are native, but HELLO PEOPLE, we live in Fairbanks, surrounded on all sides by villages of native people. Who do you think we're gonna see? Europeans? Africans? Asians?
Mayor Strle can zone all she wants, if alcoholics have to go further to get what they need they will, if they don't have liquor to buy they'll make homebrew, if they don't have homebrew they'll take listerine, if there's no listerine they'll find a way to get their fix. It's an addiction. I'm happy to see people like exchronic who are strong enough to pull themselves out of the barrel, I just wish some of my own family were as strong. The sentence about whiskey and vodka is SO true, the hardcore alcoholics in my family(the vagrants) drink ONLY that stuff. However, my brothers who both work full time like to have a 22 oz can of Sparks after a hard day(or a 40 oz. of Black Label 211 if it's been especially tough) and my husband(who also works full time) has been known to knock back a can or two after work. Some people can drink in moderation, some can't.
Actually, brianbb98, it is racism. I thought the article was about chronic inebriates downtown, not natives being downtown. Since we're talking about drunks being a problem, their race has nothing to do with it so why even bring it up?
It is so easy to point fingers and make it not their problem. Lets grow up and try to work together. Communities only positively succeed with 'community involvement'! Lets stop the petty talk and racist remarks and work together to solve a problem. Finger pointing has never been a solution. I have already heard probably 50 racist remarks in the comments here and even more comments with stereotyping Native people.
Come on people, what is this? Is this the new school playground for name calling?
I don't drink & yet I LOVED downtown before they ruined it! It was alive and fun all day and night!! I felt safe at any hour, because soo many people were around. Some were bad but, most were friendly and helpful..Now it is scary being down there!
Anybody remember Wasca and Irene Sherman..I always gave him a sandwich and would give Irene a meal and fill the mug hanging around her neck with beer for a story..She was amazing! I could talk to her for hours! Then (younger) people started beating up poor old Wasca all the time and they put Irene in a home and tore down her place near Hamilton Acres, because it was an eyesore..I miss her & her place. She was always cleaning up the alleys behind the bars for beer.. Truly an Alaskan Pioneer! Mental health issues and all..She had a very rough life but still made the most of it and was a very generous person. She always had a smile for me.
For all it's worth, this is the kind of communication that works.
It is healthy and people are actually thinking before typing.
"i can tell you how i made the change from a decade long homeless drunk to a fully employed law abiding contributing member of society... but many of you won't like the answer."
Well, I for one like your answer, Exchronic, because I know it works! Thank you for sharing.
My friend, mentioned above, found freedom the same way. He was a street drunk in Fairbanks for several decades. One winter morning, he woke up, passed out on the sidewalk in front of the Mecca Bar. He looked up at the thermometer. It said 37 below. He cried out in desperation to God to please rescue him from that lifestyle! And God answered, as He always does. He led him to a place where he came to know Jesus in a personal way, and began a relationship that gave him Someone to turn to when times are hard, rather than turning to the bottle. Then He led him to a wonderful support group in Reformers Unanimous, a program that gives much-needed structure and purpose to those struggling with addictions. My friend is now a fine Christian gentleman. I am proud to call him my friend, proud of what he has become. But he is a humble man, and he never forgets where he came from. He is quick to give God the credit for his recovery.
True, Exchronic, God is not a superstition. But He IS a crutch. We all need one. We all have one. Alcohol, drugs, food, work, television - everyone uses something as a crutch. The secret of victory over addictions is learning to turn to God in times of temptation and trouble.
Thank you so much for sharing your success story!
And please do consider contacting the Mayor and offering your input. She doesn't need someone with a degree in psychology. She needs to hear from someone who can give her inside information on the situation.
I think Iam going to have a cold beer with my Bar-B-Que tonight
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One cop workin' a beat downtown with a big nightstick enforcing laws already on the books such as vagrancy, public drunkeness, loitering, panhandling, assault, vandalism, ect, ect would stop the problem. The PD has the manpower if they handle their DUI arrests with a couple cops instead of four or five that are normally involved.
I love what downtown has become. Over the last 10-15 years it's gotten a face lift that was badly needed. It's a beautiful place with plenty to do, but I can't enjoy it the way I would like to because of the intoxication problem.
One day while running an errand downtown I saw an older drunk man urinating on the sidewalk across from KATN. Facing the street, not shy about it at all.
Another day, a friend of mine and I were in Golden Heart park. We returned to our cars where a drunk man tried to pick a fight with him. We left.
Last summer, a drunk man fell down in the bushes next to the Illinois street bridge. Fearing that he'd roll into the river I helped him up and to a nearby bench so he could sit down.
I've seen people fighting on the walking bridge over the river.
I don't go downtown much, but when I do I end up witnessing something I really wish I didn't have to deal with. There's no doubt about it, the heavy drinking is a problem and I am happy that city officials are trying to fix it but I feel bad that the tourists who come here and bring money into our economy have to deal with it as well.
It should be no surprise that all the problems I have had are less than a block away from the Mecca bar. I wish that place would close down or become a more respectable establishment.
I just want to be able to have a stroll downtown in my hometown without having to worry about somebody else's problem. Selfish? Maybe.
"Perhaps the best way to encourage folks to take advantage of Reformers Unanimous in the community (not just the corrections system) is to offer this program through a forum which does not display "hellfire and damnation" and hate messages on their reader boards...this tends to scare a lot of folks away from what could be a valuable program."
You may have a valid point, Rockee. There are those who dislike hearing about "hellfire and damnation." But if I'm going to look for a church, I'm going to look for one that preaches the Bible, not some person's private opinion. It was Jesus Himself who warned about Hellfire and damnation.
But I can also tell you that you will never find a more loving and accepting group of people than "the church with the sign."
I don't see the sign's messages as hate messages. I see it as an attempt to encourage people to THINK.
Thanks WhatNext, I agree finger pointing is not going to solve the problem, it just makes the situation worse. So thanks to all those "contributing members of society" who immediately turned this into a race issue. (sense the sarcasm?)
I don't think Mayor Strle's idea is going to work, only because, like many other proposed solutions before her, it's a band aid on a wound that needs a lot more than a quick fix. People on the street usually are there because they have serious mental health issues and need long term treatment which may or may not even work. This issue is a lot more complex than not selling 40s and cheap liquor in certain areas.
Finally, thank you to ExChronic for sharing your story and how you have changed your life to become a REAL contributing member of society. It's refreshing to hear stories of encouragement, understanding and respect.
It is so nice spending almost half a year in the bush. It is so much more like Alaska USED to be. Fairbanks, the only thing left of Fairbanks is in history books and photo albums. Such a shame. No wonder so many old timers are leaving, this is certainly not the Alaska they came to or wanted. Such a shame.
Readers,
Please be aware that people have strong opinions on this topic and be mindful of your tone.
Thank you.
Its just another excuse for the city to add more employees to the payroll
Do you really think that they wont need someone to administer this program and someone to inspect and make sure alcohol isnt being sold in the zone
It's amazing that so many people can tell the cultural makeup of a person by their appearance. It seems that there are alot of assumptions being made about cultural heritage. As far as I know we are all homosapians, even though some of the remarks made make me wonder. If a person fell down with a heart attack, I am sure everyone would run to their aid. If a person falls because of over use of alcohol, how many of you turn the other way. It isn't the street people who are arrested for DUI's or DWI's. It isn't the street people who have used a vehicle when intoxicated and killed another human being. How many of you have had one drink to many and drove your vehicle. Check the police blotter, these are the real criminals out there. The only difference between a lot people who sit on their counch every night and get drunk is they have a home to do it in.
Julie Striker ...
Why are facts so difficult for you to handle?
your kidding me .. right james??
Liquor store clerks do have the right to refuse to sell somebody a drink. I've watched it happen several times....on a seperate note, I'll have a cold one tonight as i bbq. moderation is key.-new laws will not stop chronics unfortunatly.
From an economic stand point, this has the potential to work. I say potential because it seems this idea could fail very easily if it isn't handled correctly.
Speaking in terms of supply in demand: if supply is decreased when certain types of alcohol are banned, but demand remains the same, the the price of alcohol will go up. Chronic abusers who can barely afford to keep themselves drunk wont be able to afford large quantities of alcohol anymore and will theoretically drink less alcohol.
However, if store owners realize that with less competition they can lower their prices on alcohol. The profit margin is lower but people will flock to these stores giving them the majority of the alcoholics "market", then the system will fail.
Store owners will have to make a decision to do either what is right for the community, or what is right for their families. With times being as they are right now, I wouldn't be surprised to see the latter situation occur. I think Fairbanks will see a surprisingly low decrease in alcoholism, but I sure wouldn't mind being surprised.
I think a real solution to this problem will involve actual rehabilitation for chronic users, not just a place where they can get a hot meal and sleep if off.
exchronic thanks for pointing out that a lot of inebriates are not native, cuz i see that too. but u did forget to add that they walk in groups cuz they get messed with, picked on, beat up and tortured by groups of teens and sometimes even adults riding around in packs. i've seen it before.
"Facts" are often "theories in disguise" (and therefore subject to interpretation). I can list facts all day long that are, in my opinion at least, not open to discussion or interpretation and yet I know there are dozens (if not hundreds) of posters on this forum who would eagerly and delightedly dispute my "facts" all day long.
And, by the same token, I will also dispute some facts laid down by others posting to this forum. I find it interesting that Mayor Stryle wishes to 'do something' about the chronic inebriation issue. Good luck to her - the problem of public intoxication is at least 3 or 4 thousand years old and I don't think she's ever going to solve it (that's been tried by people far more gifted with intelligence through the centuries).
One other thing; I may have missed it - maybe someone picked up on it - but I think this is another attempt at "control" where the city administration is trying to impose power over the personal and private lives of citizens.
It's been proven in this paper time and time again!! Native people experience more racism in this town than any other race. The Newsminer likes to print stories like this because as Julie Striker said, "Please be aware that people have strong opinions on this topic and be mindful of your tone." But it seems they like pointing the finger and hiding behind "let's watch our tone." Hahaha, the newsminer reporters are ridiculous, read the newsminer for a year and you'll understand how they use all kinds of STUPID correlations.
brianbb98 just cause u think we alaskan natives have a drinking problem dosent mean that there arent good natives my brother who died of cancer would give to the less fortunate by bringing food not alchol to the people who u call natives who u think is the problem in alaska yes that is very racism so before u talk and think what ur talkin about u can not call us
PEOPLE WHO LIVE OFF ALCHOL WE HAVE A LIFE SOO LOOK AROUND A WHOLE LOT OF NATIONALITYS IN ALASKA DRINK.. LOOK AROUND YOU SOO ITS NOT JUST US NATIVES.
Regulating what can be bought and sold in our country infringes on our rights as a democratic, capitalist society.
I should be able to buy whatever drink I want in my country. Thousands and thousands have died for this basic right.
Taking away this right because of drunks or "eye-sores" to all you perfect people is quite pathetic. Most of these drunks mind their own business and wish to drink their lives away.
The sad truth is: you can only help those who want help - whether we believe they need it or not.
Sometimes, All you can do is pray for those you see who are in obvious need of help, pray that they become sober citizens like yourselves Fairbanksans.
While chronic alcoholism and inebriate behavior may be a major problem in Fairbanks, the correct answer is not government control over what businesses can and cannot sell, or what people can or cannot purchase.
i never said all natives are bad, the opposite in fact. i have had many friends who are native. you'd be lying to yourself if you walked downtown and said there were more asians, whites, blacks, mexicans or any other race with alcohol issues. i was just agreeing with others that the majority of those with alcohol problems downtown happen to be native. as i am read from other posts its probably due to many of the villages not allowing alcohol and of course this is alaska so many natives live up here. im not going to pretend i know the issue or how to fix it, but this idea of restricting certain alcohol sales wouldnt help one bit.
please dont go screaming "racist" when someones race comes up.
I admire exchronic.
I was enlightened by his words, thank you for sharing. You made the strongest case against racism out of many of these comments. Thank you. It's nice to see that people who have been there leave comments too! You're words on addiction were enlightening as well, they merit the length of your journey.
The committee should extend both arms out to people such as yourself, for I'm sure they'll have a finer tuned eye to what needs to be done. Their accuracy may increase one-hundred fold if they asked someone who has been there, for help.
But what does race have to do with it? Is there a problem with natives being downtown? No. There is a problem with drunks. Why does their race matter at all?
I happen to be American Indian, and proud of my heritage. I am not Alaskan Native, nor do I even look like the conventional (I'll forego using "stereotypical") depiction of an Indian. My skin is pale and eyes are light. Due to how I look, I have been witness to racist comments from both sides.
Regarding chronic inebriates, ... where the majority of my tribal members live (Oklahoma, Texas), ... the same problem and the same issues abound. Different name-calling (Injuns to take place of "Nate", etc.) Instead of "downtown," there it is drunks coming from the "Rez". This is a problem without boundaries and happens to all communities nationwide.
What can we do? I commend Mayor Strle for recognizing the problem, but I am conservative and would not like to see more government than we absolutely need, socialized services only results in restrictions of rights and increases to taxes. Additional law enforcement has proven effective, however, it only seems to me to be a reactionary solution. Proactive measures are not popular, but go far, obviously, in preventing the problem BEFORE it's a problem. I have no ideas, however, sorry.
Dan Hoffman, Fairbanks' top cop and one who has dealt with the issue first hand, wrote an opinion piece a while back, and as I remember he was spot on with a cost-effective answer to the problem. His ideas were ignored of course, because it required city funds, so now we are paying ten times as much as a community to deal with the "problem" thru emergency room and jail costs. The "problem" won't go away by passing new laws against cheap booze, someone besides the police and paramedics (expensive) has to be out on the streets loading the chronics into a van and into a treatment facility with enough beds to make a difference. Even if you can't make them stay.
Think about that when you are waiting forever for a response to a property crime because the police are too busy with a passed out drunk on the street.
It's the price of living in a city that doesn't have a skid row to hide them in.
Congrats to the mayor on marching Fairbanks another step in the direction of socialism. I'm tired of lower 48 solutions to Alaska problems.....don't import socialism to Fairbanks.
I don't know where everyone posting lives but the problem is not just downtown -Currently if you visit from 17th through the on-ramp to the Mitchell off of South Cushman you will see individuals wandering the streets obviousy intoxicated- Or how about Island Homes - when the push happened a few years back to get drunk people out of dowtown they moved to Graehl Park and then when we made it illegal to drink in the park and began enforcing this, they moved into the laundry rooms of the condominiums in that area and began visiting homes, sleeping in sheds etc. What I'm saying is that if they have to walk to Safeway instead of buying it at Gavora Liquor they will. Walking an extra mile is really not a big deal If we are going to do something lets truly look at a long term fix which is based upon a community that does not enable, but provides the resources for someone to get help when they should so choose. We do not have that system in place - having 8 residential treatment beds for a community our size just isn't enough. I do wholly support the idea of a task force getting together to talk about it and I think it is great so many people commented on this subject - I am sure Mayor Strle is also reading this post - She is a smart lady and truly wants to do what is best for our community. I hope all of you will get involved in groups that are working towards change because there are quite a few of them out there. Until our community cares enough to get involved we will see no change
gopdud, please enlighten us on how it should be done, your rhetoric is tiring...please add something to the debate. How do you want to deal with this issue? Please, fascism is not what Fairbanks needs bring something to the table. YouMustBConfused
I think this commitee is a good first step and I appreciate the Mayor's efforts. I only wish the zone covered more of fairbanks, especially down town. There are several other areas that have to deal with this issue as well. There has to be a way to really treat the problem. Couldn't we ban the repeat offenders from the towns bars completely instead of restricting everyone's purchases? I also think fairbanks citizens should be able to participate in this committee.
This is the kind of crap we get for electing the head of a non-profit as our mayor. Prepare for lots more of this socialism/nanny-state crap. My opinion is pretty extreme : IF they are breaking a law, arrest them. If not, leave them alone. I've been in Fairbanks for 25+ years and there has always been a problem with drunks, you really think it will stop if you cant buy Colt 45s or MD 20/20 downtown? This town has wasted millions on this problem, and it seems so far all we have managed is to set up a bed and breakfast program for these losers.
Leave them alone, or lock them up. the mayor should take the social engineering stuff and shove it back where it came from
For starters, I would like to thank News Miner for not playing the "race card" in this article. When I read the header I thought for sure something would be mentioned- as it generally is. In that same breath, shame on all of you who introduced the "race card" into this discussion! Sure it may be what you all "see", but what we "see" is very often not the reality.
The reality is that we have a problem in Fairbanks. The reality is that it is not just on the Cushman/Illinois strip. The reality is that it is a terrible eyesore to those who would want to promote the downtown area. The reality is it is a problem in our community as a whole, and needs to be dealt with as such.
Many have heard the saying "build it and they will come", this rings true in so many ways. It is no secret that if alcohol is banned in a certain area, people will migrate to the area where it is not yet banned- beware what you ask for. It is no secret that daily these people wake up and find themselves in the same rut they were in yesterday, there is no doubt in my mind that our homeless community (most of which dance with alcohol) think daily about people that are no longer with us- some of which succumbed to alcohol. It is no secret that most of these people want to "do life" differently. No amount of law making and rule setting will change their daily behavior, they need to want to change. The problem is that there appears to not be enough support for these people at the moment they decide to change, and they go back to the old ways- I said appear, and we all know appearances are not always reality. I believe that government actually enables the homeless inebriate population more than they know, and these laws are not a fix. This population is already pretty migratory- it will not harm them to move a bit more, not like the climate will be different.
So, the next point of discussion should be what has helped? Thank you to all that have posted helpful (instead of harmful) threads to this community discussion. There are several things that have helped several people- that is what we need to focus on and build- because if we build it they will come. We have seen prohibition fail, we have seen asylums fail, we know hiding the problem or making rules so that the problem "disappears" fails. As a community lets come together and understand the root of alcoholism, and work together to help our fellow community members when they are ready for that help.
Help does exist in the community, and there are those who will attest to that (as we have heard).
I would like to thank the Mayor, Law Enforcement, local churches, various alcohol programs, and mostly the people of this community who are seeing the need and attempting to meet it, that is how change is made.
yes mj... you are right. traveling in groups was much safer. i'm not native and am much larger than your average native so was less of a target. i also saved my more heavier intoxicated times for when i was outside the downtown core area. i basically went to town to get my supply, booze, half smoked cigarette butts from ashtrays (we called them snipes) and maybe even a little food and then head out to south fairbanks. money for this stuff was gotten by either panhandling or day labor, or on a rare occassion through somewhat less ethical methods. however, i have taken my more than my share of rides in the detox van or the back of a police cruiser to wasca wasca hall.
one of my drinking buddies back towards the middle 1990's (the years there tend to blend together alot) was killed by "the bicycle gang". the story i was told was he was walkin in the early a.m. (staggering)behind what used to be the pioneer bar (i think-memory is fuzzy-could have been tommy's) and a group of kids came up from behind with a baseball bat on bikes and knocked him unconcious. it was early may and was just a few patches of snow left on the ground. after taking what he had in his pockets (not much) they dragged his unconcious body to a patch of snow and left him there where he then died of hypothermia.
should leave the race issue in this particular discussion out of it. just remember, and addicted person is an addicted person regardless of ethnic background. for treatment discussions you may want to gear your treatment plans to the persons particular cultural background. for instance... i have seen where natives have a difficult time staying sober because so many in their families around them still drink heavily. meanwhile, for my ethnic background, my behavior was so unacceptable that i was irrevocably disowned by my family long ago.
Phew, there's lots to say on this topic.
I agree with a previous post - downtown has gotten a wonderful facelift over the past few years, and I enjoy spending time there, by the river and bridges. I'd enjoy it more if the chronic inebriates weren't there. I work downtown, and would definitely utilize public transportation more often if the transit center on 5th and Cushman, and the buses themselves, weren't so overrun by chronic inebriates.
Many of the chronic inebriates I see are Native. Not all, but most. Most of the hard-core alcoholics I know are white. Not all, but most.
Alcoholism - substance abuse of any kind - does not discriminate according to race. Neither do mental health issues. But poverty does. Of *course* there are exceptions, but generally, whites tend to be the wealthiest of all the racial groups. As a whole, whites tend to be better educated, have better jobs, have more status, have better social mobility. (And yes, I expect an onslaught of negative comments for the statements I'm making in this paragraph. Yet I state these things because they're true. They're *still* true, even in the 21st century.)
Most of the chronic inebriates I've seen in the downtown area are Native, but I don't see that as a racial issue. I see it as a poverty issue. I suspect many of these people come from the villages, where there's a real lack of jobs, where it's hard to get an education on par with the kind available in urban areas. There's also the individual experience of culture shock and social alienation experienced by those who come from small villages and try to adapt to life in an urban area such as Fairbanks. All these are factors of the poverty that affect many of these people.
But . . .
Alcoholism and substance abuse are the *real* problems in this town, and afflict many people here regardless of race, educational background, income level, etc. What makes chronic inebriation such an "in your face" type of social problem, though, is POVERTY. The causes of poverty are many, and are complex. There are no single solutions for it, nor any simple ones.