Letter to the Editor
Buying liquor online
Published Sunday, April 13, 2008
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To the editor:
The Alaska Beverage Council is concerned about teens ordering alcohol online. There are thousands of Web sites, many based in other countries, that allow the online order of any beverage alcohol. Clicking a box that claims you are 21 and a credit card are all that it takes.
The U.S. Supreme Court has made matters worse with its ruling in Rowe v. The New Hampshire Motor Transport Association, which allows for the free flow of tobacco via private shippers such as Federal Express or DHL.
Essentially, the tobacco decision creates the opportunity for minors — our children — to go online, order anything — alcohol, tobacco — and have it delivered requiring the delivery person to check IDs when the package is delivered. It’s a serious concern that Alaska Beverage Council shares with parents, families, communities and lawmakers across Alaska.
As research proves, teens often don’t get their liquor from licensed establishments. Sixty-five percent of minors get their alcohol from parents’ liquor cabinets or the family fridge. Another sizable percentage asks older shoppers to go into the liquor store for them. In fact, illegal purchases from retailers only represent 7 percent of the problem thanks to the diligence of our members.
We believe the Supreme Court ruling is not only a step backward but opens the door to future complications. By ruling that the responsibility to verify age cannot be placed on the shipper, how can we ensure the person ordering alcohol online is of legal age?
The responsibility is now on the state Legislature, the Alcohol Beverage Control Board and the industry to figure out how to prevent teens from ordering online. Industry members see state control of alcohol shipments as a key component in preventing alcohol abuse among minors.
The Supreme Court’s decision was a wake-up call for us all. As the industry and government work to find a solution to the legal and technical issues, we ask parents, teachers and guardians of Alaska teens to keep an even closer eye out for teens buying alcohol online.
Community Discussion
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i didnt know that...
im gonna start buying online, thats like delivery!
I think a viable solution would be that buyers be required to have their orders shipped directly to a licensed establishment, where TAMS certified staff would verify their identification prior to releasing the product. Make it a crime to have alcohol shipped directly to a residence. UPS and FedEx delivery persons are not qualified nor should be required to monitor alcohol purchases.
There are many people who order specialty wines and spirits via the internet because they are not readily available on store shelves. It is my understanding that the general public by law cannot buy alcohol direct from a distributor in the state of Alaska, (product must pass through a licensed establishment) so why should internet sales be any different?
I think that a viable option would be for the government to get its rear-end out of the parenting business. It's -my- responsibility as a parent to make sure that my children aren't engaging in conduct that they're not eligible to engage in, either due to age, ability, or what ever other applicable criteria.
Contrary to Hillary's claims a few years back, it doesn't necessarily take a whole 'village'; it takes dedicated persons, preferably parents, and perhaps a few decently-boundaried neighbors or friends. Not the whole 'village,' and especially not when that village is likely lead by its proverbial idiot.
This feared activity, by the letter-writer's own admission, isn't yet even a problem, as in, 'not even on the bloody radar,' and I've yet to see children circulating any SCOTUS rulings, exclaiming, "Hey!! Look at THIS loop-hole." Nor do I anticipate that scene to come to fruition any time soon. Other than, perhaps, with the aid of letters like the one printed above.
Heck, if you can get -average- kids to sit and read something truly informative and educational, even if it's a court ruling, then more power to you!!
None of my kids use drugs of any recreational variety, including alcohol. It's MY job to make sure that remains the case, though they all know that their CHOICE to cross, or not to cross that bridge, rests on the other side of the age-of-majority barrier. And I trust that they'll make those INDIVIDUAL decisions FOR THEMSELVES, with lots of knowledge and consideration, because as their parents, that's how I and my wife have raised them. (Without the school system's 'Chicken Little-sponsored' drug and alcohol propaganda, I might add; programs that've been found to either have no lasting positive effect, or, in some cases, the opposite of the intended effect.)
If I wanted the government to take responsibility for raising my kids, I'd have included their names on the marriage or birth certificates as active parties to those agreements or circumstances, instead of the less-than-active mere sponsorship that's otherwise implied by the presence of their official seals.
If you don't know what's coming through your front door, or what's actually going on in, or at, your home, then perhaps you're either not at, or engaged in, your home enough. Or perhaps someone needs to take their parenting role more seriously than simply making sure that there's bread and milk in the refrigerator, or racing to that second job in order to make the next credit card payment for all of those neat toys.
Generations of persons were effectively raised by parents who didn't need or ask the government to step in as quasi-parent and savior. Gee, how'd they do it?? (And please don't tell me that they didn't have alcohol and 'drugs' available back then. They most certainly did.)
supply and demand.
Dirk - Once again you've summed it all up amazingly (tired of hearing that from me yet?).
Parenting is the responsibility of parents. It should be left there until it's time to not leave it there anymore. This alcohol-by-mail "issue" isn't one of those times. But thanks for the warning, Mr. Fox. I'll make sure I keep an eye on my credit card and my statements, and the packages that come in the mail - like the adult, and parent, that I try so hard to be.
First Dale: That was a stupid move. I didn't even know you could buy alcohol online. Thanks for the education and thanks for educating the kids too.
Second Dale: Because of your affiliation with CHARR, with every fiber I doubt that this is about the kids. It's about you as CEO serving your industry. I shall quote from your website:
"Who We Are...
Alaska CHARR is the only statewide organization serving the hospitality industry since 1968.
With Alaska CHARR Affiliates established in Anchorage, Fairbanks, Kodiak, Ketchikan, Juneau/Lynn Canal, Nome, Sitka and the Kenai Peninsula, we strive to provide the Alaska hospitality industry with the most comprehensive representation.
Alaska CHARR has operated the most respected and widest known alcohol server training program in Alaska, Techniques of Alcohol Management® (TAM) since 1984.
Alaska CHARR publishes the hospitality trade publication (Toast Magazine®), distributed free of charge to over 1,800 licensees in the state.
Alaska CHARR fights for your rights as a business owner in the hospitality industry, through lobbying on the local, state and national levels."
Third Dale: How many kids do you know who have their own mailing address? What nonsense.
Fourth and final point Dale: Our 'KIDS' are being injured and killed in Iraq you choose to use your energy to ensure they can't order a $40 bottle of wine online. I am disgusted with mentality such as yours and our government. You purport to protect our 'KIDS' by making alcohol less available to all, and then teach them how to kill and send them off to war so they can have PTSD, or be injured or die, all before they're 21!
I am NOT impressed.
No studies and it's about profits
This guy is lying. He first suggests that teens are accessing alcohol online then fails to even come up with a percentage of just how many are actually doing it.
Instead he slips up and points out the truth that most get there alcohol at home. I could have told you that without a study.
So where is the study indicating that online sales to teens is running rampant?
And just how many teens (under 18) actually have credit cards?
Oh yeah I know some adults are not afforded the same rights as others till they are 21..and so to be afforded those rights they must subvert the law...I say more power to them.Once you turn 18 you considered to have reached the age of maturity, you are allowed the right to vote, to join the military, buy guns and are also held responsible for your actions as well, you should also be equally afforded the rights that all adults are given not just what some in fine hats say they will allow you to have.
Why isn't it the responsibility of the parent to insure there teen doesn't have ready access to alcohol or there credit cards instead of the government?
Why isn't this person also not mandating more government control of vehicles since teens are sometimes caught driving without a license.
Attempts to control online purchase of alcohol and tobacco has zero to do with preventing teens from getting them and more to do with the State mafia organization and local business trying to get there share of potential profits which may be slipping by them.
For all you adults that are under 21 just google wine making or beer and make your own. If you start now you could eventually become really good at it and never have to give a dime in taxes..
Tobacco grows well here too by the way.....
URLs, Dale. We need URLs.
To, uh, see for ourselves how horrible this development is. Yeah.
Yeah buddy, send us some links. No State tax and delivered to my door? Cool!
This is obviously a story about profits, and not wanting profits to go to internet companies outside, and keep it with lic. distributers in AK. I will be doing my shopping online, even though I detest using a credit card. If I can get a case of VO for less than 20 bucks a fifth, you bet, I will be shopping there!! Thanks for the advertisement for online shopping Dale.
if happens teen orfer with fake id or age on online. Federal Express or DHl are waste fuel and money send it back to ompany. where it ordered from ........wake up! and think to rid of booze out of fairbanks
I just checked out a few of the online liquor stores. Let me just say the kids that order online must have extremely good taste and have very thick wallets!
No, I do not support your lobby effort, Dale. It is quite clear to me you are worried that people will purchase online, rather than through distributers.
I will say that the selection of tequilas is mind boggling! I never knew that their were that many resposados from which to choose!
LlincQimiq:
Reads like you've had a few too many yourself!
Prohibition did not work in the 20's and it does not work now. Have you ever seen a child born to a mother who drinks Lysol and Hairspray?
It is far worse than FAS. In dry communities, some people turn to products that contain alcohol like hairspray, Heet, bugspray, and use Lysol which is Phenol and actually deprives the body and brain of oxygen by knoking the O2 molecule off the red blood cell. Do you think that is better? Are you wanting to ban those products as well?
There are also thousands of people who drink alcohol responsibly. You won't read about those people in the police blotter, you only hear about the ones who abuse it. In one 24 hour period, how many people in Fairbanks do you you think drink alcohol? Now compare that number to the arrest in the police blotter. You can even figure in a high percentage that didn't get caught and there are still more responisible people than not.
You can not legislate morality! If you choose not to drink then don't. It is not anybody elses place to force responsible people into giving up something they have no problems with.
People under 21 tend to binge when they can get hold of alcohol. If is wasn't so taboo, it would not be such a problem. Other contries with no drinking age do not have as high as a problem with teen drinking. It's the cookie jar theory, once the jar is obtained by someone who is not supposed to have it, they will eat every one of them.
Jush le me shay how much I app(hic)reesheeate you givin' me thish info(hic)mashon Dale. I love you man, I mean, (hic) really! I'm not jush (hic) shaying it. Yur like a (hic) brother, man. I never knew thish shtuf ex(hic)ishted. Now I'm gonna go (hic) puke.
MissKitty - "Reads like you've had a few too many yourself!" Did you consider English might be LIincQimiq's second language? Perhaps, Yup'ik or Inupiaq is his or her first language and he or she is doing the best they can to express themselves in a difficult language syntax. Alternatively, LIincQimiq might have developmental difficulties that make it difficult for him or her to express themselves as well as other people. (Maybe LIincQimiq was born suffering from serious FAS ... )
Qalartuten-qaa yugcetun? Usviipaa!
MissKitty, you started your comment with a demeaning personal attack on LIincQimiq. Doing so seriously diminishes the rest of your comment. (I almost skipped over your comment based on that first sentence.)
BTW - translation for the above: Do you speak Yup'ik? How exasperating!
BTW- I speak Inupiaq.
BTW- I don't even drink and I would never tell other people what they should or shouldn't do and do not have negative feeling towards people who do.
Sorry I assumed, I try not to do that!
LlincQimiq, I blocked you from emailing me so don't bother sending me anymore hate messages.
Sorry Griff, I have to agree with MissKitty.
LlincQimiq's posts are usually barely readable, and that's annoying. However, more annoying, is that they are usually foul mouthed, demeaning or demanding (name calling), and, their point of view is generally very opressive - they want to ban trapping, oil tankers, and all alcohol.
Sorry if they speak English as a second language. However, this is an ENGLISH language forum.
[Hope I don't start getting "HATE" emails now...]
As far as the original article goes, I think that my fellow citizens (with the exception of the one crazy prohibitionist) are all over it already. Dirk and samiam have particularly poignant posts, in my opinion.
The_Alaska_Curmudgeon - you need to brush up on your Drunkenese language skills ... here's a Dean Martin - Foster Brooks video clip you can study to help you: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=286_12004...
Oh man, Griff, that was way too funny. Thanks, that made my morning.
newsreader - Yes, LlincQimiq's posts are often barely readable and he or she has, in the past, resorted to offensive language and personal attacks. The News-Miner, as well as a few individuals, has been working with him or her regarding what is and is not acceptable expression.
This time, LlincQimiq's comment was on topic and expressed in a reasonable fashion. LlincQimiq's point of view is probably a bit extreme for most people but it was expressed in a civilized manner and deserves to be heard.
The fact that someone speaks (or writes) in broken English shouldn't be cause to keep them from expressing their opinion in a public forum, assuming those opinions are expressed in a reasonable fashion.
On another note, I agree with many of the comments above. The original letter was submitted by a high ranking individual from a particular industry with a vested interest in maintaining a specific mode for conducting business. The rhetorical tone, along with the use of emotional 'hot buttons', was an obvious attempt to stampeded people without providing any solid proof of the author's contention.
I was just wondering if there is any chance the newsminer could do a story on getting weed online?
good one bikebuilder...LOL
A friend of mine had the best idea for getting alcohol as a teenager; he brewed it himself.
Yeah thats usually the best way.
Untaxed, Unregulated,no fake ID's, or trying to get older adults to buy it and less visible or likely to get caught.
bikebuilder... seed bank....