Mine wants US court to OK dumping waste in lake
Published Monday, January 12, 2009
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Stumble It!WASHINGTON (AP) - A lawyer for a proposed Alaska gold mine told the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday that the mine should be allowed to dump metal waste into a nearby lake.
The metal waste, known as tailings, would kill all aquatic life in the lake. But mining company lawyer Theodore Olson said the waste was more accurately defined as "fill." And, once mining ends, the lake could be restocked, resulting in a bigger lake with more fish.
"It will be a bigger lake with more life than before," said Olson, a former U.S. solicitor general who represents the mining company, Coeur Alaska Inc.
Justice David Souter called that logic "Orwellian" and said the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which granted a permit for the mine, was "defining away the problem" by calling the wastewater discharge fill.
"It seems Orwellian to say there are rigorous environmental standards," Souter said.
Other justices appeared to disagree, noting that an alternative to the dumping would destroy nearby wetlands and create a stack of tailings larger than the Defense Department building.
The court's decision in the case could set a precedent for how mining waste is disposed of in U.S. streams, rivers and lakes.
A ruling in favor of the mining company could allow such waste to be dumped into waterways throughout the United States, said Tom Waldo, a lawyer with the environmental group Earthjustice.
"The whole reason Congress passed the Clean Water Act was to stop turning our lakes and rivers into industrial waste dumps," Waldo said.
The Army Corps of Engineers issued a permit for waste disposal at the proposed Kensington mine north of Juneau in 2005. Under the plan, tailings - waste left after metals are extracted from ore - would be dumped into Lower Slate Lake.
Environmentalists sued to halt the practice, saying it would kill fish. A federal appeals court blocked the permit, saying the dumping is barred by stringent Environmental Protection Agency requirements under the Clean Water Act of 1972.
The EPA had agreed to a regulatory change in the case defining "fill" as "tailings or similar mining-related materials."
The mine owner, Coeur Alaska Inc., said tailings are inert sandy material, and that almost half the tailings created by the mine would be recycled back into mine operations. The remaining tailings would be placed in a small unproductive lake, which the company called the best option for disposal.
Since 1982 the law has prohibited new gold mines from discharging waste into lakes or rivers. The Army Corps permit would allow the discharge.
The corps has often issued permits to create tailing ponds. Environmentalists say the current permit is the first to authorize the discharge of mining process wastewater into a navigable waterway.
Community Discussion
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If they are allowed to do this just think of the precedence it sets for Pebble Mine. And if you think Palin is going to be against it I seriously doubt it. As far as she's concerned everything takes a back seat to profit in Alaska and if we have to lose wildlife, lakes, wetlands...too bad.
This is a very dangerous thing to allow for it opens the door for the practice throughout the state and mining companies will be very glad to take advantage of it. Then, come time for reclamation, they'll find some way around it.
If it is just rocks and dirt like in placer mining, I fail to see the problem. If it has ANY pollutants in it, then a huge no.
Mining supports many old alaskan families.
AVERAGE_JOE: BS... small "family" mining may be a minor factor in the economic scheme of Alaska but it's FOREIGN interests who most benefit from mining. Let's look at the reality, which is foreign corporations and big money players extracting OUR wealth, paying minimal royalties and such to the state, and paying piss-ant wages to workers for laboring in their mines, not some romanticized idea of old Alaskan families scratching a living from the earth.
Justice Souter said everything that needs be said on this one:
"Justice David Souter called that logic "Orwellian" and said the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which granted a permit for the mine, was "defining away the problem" by calling the wastewater discharge fill.
"It seems Orwellian to say there are rigorous environmental standards," Souter said."
From 2002 EPA Report: "Health effects from the predominate contaminants in mine waste range from mild irritants to proven human carcinogens, such as cadmium and arsenic. The large volume of mine wastes and consequential adverse environmental and human health effects indicates an urgency for cleanup of abandoned, inactive, and active mining facilities. The environmental future of the United States depends in part on the ability to deal effectively with mine waste problems of the past and present, and more importantly, to prevent mine waste problems in the future."
I agree with burke: (dumps have to do the same thing): line a hole with plastic so that CONTAMINANTS can not leech into the surrounding soil/water and inturn affect plants, animals AND human life in the area. And your idea about the fish is spot on... if it kills the original stock, why wouldnt it kill the second stock?? Or severly contaminate them?? Why dont people ever think of these things??? Hello people we have many more years on this planet, lets not scr*w em up!!!
This is not right. It's not right for us, or any other living organism.
Water is meant for us to drink it, for the plants to grow off of it; not for hiding what you don't want to see.
"let's kill the lake and rebuild it". What logic! Mining supports a handful of Alaska mining familys? With Gold at $850 an OZ, you'd think the mines would have an affordable solution to their tailings, instead of killing a lake.
and the computer you are typing on to post these messages are made thanks to mining.
this showed up in the seattle times too. and like i said there; how much do we want to tie the hands of domestic mining operations? do we want to have to rely on foreign sources for minerals like we do oil? how many wars will that spark?
Remember that Ft. Wainwright and Fairbanks are downstream from one of the biggest, unlined, toxic tailing lakes in the United States.
Make sure it is designed right especially in earthquake country. Trust and continuously verify management especially at the end of the operation when things always get slipshod.
An engineer's blame that an earthquake made a system fail when it was known to be prone to happen will never fix the aftermath.
And I don't think I'd want to eat stocked fish from Fort Knox when the lake is being used for a toxic waste dump of arsenic treated tailings.
But it might be a good testing place for Darwin awards. Unfortunately the users probably won't have health insurance. We'll all pay.
Down with mining!
Down with oil!
Down with trapping!
Down with fishing!
Down with hunting!
Down with tourism!
Down with agriculture!
Down with the timber industry!
Down with bars and taverns!
Down with SUVs and big pickups!
Down with the 1st Amendment!
Down with the 2nd Amendment!
(Did I forget anything?)
The title of this article could have been along the lines of "Supreme Court Looks at Mining Issue". I guess that one was already taken by a headline writer without a bias that he wanted to communicate. This title is much more sexy.
Who in their right or left mind thinks the Supreme Court is going to over rule a lower court on this issue.
Let's close the mine instead. Or better yet let them dump their crap in Glacierles's back yard. This is a sorry joke on all Alaskan's and the American people.
Close the mine and send these eco-criminals back to the Lower 48.
Did none of these corporate idiots (including Glaceries) learn anything from the coal mine debacle in North Carolina? Jail this scum, or better yet put them in forced labor camps until the clean up their own filth.
Yes glacierles, you forgot:
Down with clean water!
Down with clean fish!
Down with clean game!
Down with clean land!
The title was appropriate. They are deciding whether or not to allow dumping in the lake, hence the first sentence of the story: "A lawyer for a proposed Alaska gold mine told the U.S. Supreme Court on Monday that the mine should be allowed to dump metal waste into a nearby lake." The second sentence said that the tailings would kill everything in the lake. Seems pretty clear. The article that is, not the lake. It's going to be killed with tailings. Then, when all of the tailings have killed the lake, they're going to restock it with fish. Do you want to eat that fish, IF it even lives for more than two days after being stocked there? And if everything is dead in the lake, what will the fish eat to stay alive if by some miracle the tailings didn't kill them?
I say dump the stuff in glacierles's back yard. Your neighbors won't mind having poisoned water if you don't, right?
A lake is not just a giant fish tank. It's an entire ecosystem. This plan is akin to wiping out the rain forest with defoliant, then planting some pine trees to replace it. The corporate mindset just kills me! (As well as lake full of life!)
yes glacierles, you forgot the most important one
down with humans
If the metal has been extracted, I don't understand why the tailings would kill all life in the lake, unless they plan to entirely fill the lake with tailings. Maybe that is the plan - then re-excavate it later and restore it. There are many old gravel pits around that are teeming with aquatic life and full of fish.
Perhaps the chemicals used to extract the metal remain in the tailings though?
I believe current regulations require mined areas to be restored after mining is complete. It's too bad that wasn't done with the creeks around Fairbanks, which now look so unnatural as they flow through tailings.
Doris you frogot,,,, Down with glacierles!
If they want to mine, then they should barge out the tailings to a proper disposal site, one appropriately lined and set to recieve and process the tailings into clean resuable fill. Or they could just shipe'm to Wasilla to help neutralize all the bull there?
Actually, I think the tailings should be shipped to the mine's top exectives' real back yards, as well as that lawyer's who told the judge the fantasy story of restocked fish. That's the biggest fish story I've ever heard!
Joe Murphy - you are so right. Those mines have devastated the land there. It's absolutely disgusting what they've done. They're land murderers. And I'm not just being dramatic. They are literally killing the land at rapid rate and the people who live there at a slightly slower rate, and mining is expected to double there in the next ten years. I love your idea of making the scumbags clean it up themselves in forced labor camps.
These are the people we been talking about that will destroy our last frontier! Keep Alaska wild all other states are polluted!
Science lesson time, akflower.... When gold and silver are extracted from raw ore, (the dirt fresh out of the mine),it is first crushed, then run thru several CHEMICAL processes and roasting ( like a turkey) to seperate the gold and silver from the dirt. There are many chemicals used in this process, among them, mercury and cyanide. See this link for more information: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gold_extrac...
When the process is complete you are left with the "tailings" a highly contaminated material that they want to dump in the lake. It WILL kill the fish and thru leaching, get into the surrounding soil and be a major toxic spill. It cannot be allowed. Period.
Well,at least they asked.
Actually, I think the tailings should be shipped to the mine's top exectives' real back yards, as well as that lawyer's who told the judge the fantasy story of restocked fish. That's the biggest fish story I've ever heard!
Doris,
The Canadians wouldn't allow this stuff to cross the border.
Polarmark, you seem very concerned about the success of this mine. Let me ask you, what would you gain from this mine being allowed to destroy a lake?
Unless you or a relative are employeed by Coeur Alaska (based in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho), it is incredibly unlikely that you will see any benefit from this project.
The mine will pay little to no State taxes, and there is no royalty structure for gold and silver. The mine will employ a few dozen to few hundred folks, but much of the work will be done by Idahoans. The mine will be taking an incredibly valuable resource essentially for free, and in addition, they will be destroying a reasonably large lake.
Let me ask again. Why are you so concerned that this mine project succeed?
I really don't agree with killing off fish for the mine to profit.I was just stiring the pot.And it worked.
It might be possible that if the tailings were NOT contaminated the thing that would kill the fish off would be as simple as low oxygen levels that would reproduce after settling?
think about it.
This is shocking.
A BIG NO!!!
Judging from the previous comments, I must have blasphemed against all that is holy. I better watch it, or "the tolerant ones" will fill my backyard with poop, and send me to a slave labor camp.
This kind of hateful reaction kind of rings a bell, doesn't it? Mmmmm. Who is it that used to use those debate tactics? I've got to think about that.
glacierless,
you have a lot of things you need to think about. Why do you equate "intolerance" with poisoning the planet? We've corresponded before and you've made it clear that you value your own creature comforts, your own well-being, and your own intolerance of dissenting opinions far more than a mere "debate issue." You've made it equally clear that your idea of tolerance and freedom equates to little more than self righteousness and a slave-like mentality when it comes to Corporate Amerika.
So maybe you should think about the reasons you were put on this planet. Maybe you should think about the idea that the American citizen is an individual and, when it comes down to it, more important than a government of corporate prostitutes intent on giving away our freedom, our environment, and our treasury to millionaires and corporations that have repeatedly betrayed our country for obscenely undeserved profits.
And finally, maybe you might mention what big corporation you work for. You also might choose to refine your all so-called debate tactics to something above the level of open mockery. But then again, that's really all you have on your side, isn't it.
Joe---
I am guilty of mocking people, I admit. I find that more acceptable than calling them juvenile names, swearing at them, and writing down the assumptions that I have about them. Probably half of the comments that I write I delete, so that I wont reduce myself to the level of personalities.
While my mockery and sarcasm might offend a group that I disagree with, I try not to make it personal. Are you personally offended that I, or anyone, disagrees with you.
But, since you question me, I will tell you what I think of environmental extremists. I think that you (I say that as a general "you") act like spoiled children. You live in a free society that has been so luxurious to live in, that you have all of this extra time to think about what's wrong with society. Just a little bit of hardship, like say the grocery store runs out of toilet paper, and people start crying like it is a personal affront to them. Each of us could easily, but for fate, have been born in a society where we would have to walk everywhere, barefoot, carrying 50 lbs.
To me the logical conclusion to reach is to export our lifestyle. Our food, our medicine, our technology, and yes, some of our rules. But to those who would shut down any job creating, technological capitalist entity, out of hand because they despise having to actually go through a trial and error process to find out what works best, I believe that those people (you?) would rather bring our quality of life down than bring the rest of the world's quality up.
Someone like ImUsusallyRight would probably say here, who are we to say that we do it better? The proof is in the proverbial pudding. We are the super power of the world, and people look to us for direction. Certainly, we can learn from other countries, and have honest respect for their cultures. We can learn new technologies, and perhaps a different way to look at laws and at life. Contrary to your opinion, I keep my eyes open for new ideas. I am still a work in progress, as should we all be.
Why, sir, were you put on this planet? To be intellectually lazy? To insult neighbors that you disagree with? To stop any and all capitalist enterprises that you don't like? To utilize the luxuries of modern society while all the while self-righteously arguing against them? To say to hell with all previous generations, only yours has the answers?
I'm sure that you are an honest person searching for answers. My suggestion to you is to self-criticise your own hypocrisy.
Finally, I work for the government (really), and I'm here to help you.
"""The Army Corps of Engineers issued a permit for waste disposal at the proposed Kensington mine north of Juneau in 2005. Under the plan, tailings - waste left after metals are extracted from ore - would be dumped into Lower Slate Lake."""
If indeed, this is such a looming ecological disaster the eco-groups and mainstream media (Assassination Press) obviously want everyone to believe in; then the Corp of Engineers needs to explain why they issued the waste disposal permit in the first place.
I accept the fact that I'm probably the only one around here that would genuinely like to hear that explanation.
Mine makes big money, taxpayer money cleans up mess. After the last taxpayer funded bailout I am demanding lubercation! Just another bunch of unintelligent lowlife welfare scum screwing us in a CON.(QUICK BUCK ARTISTS) Please don't respond with some unintelligent dribble. I worked in the waste industry for many years and know the science.
Hi Glacieres,
Ah, you work for the government. That explains a lot. Would this be the government that has involved us in an illegal war based upon deliberately constructed lies involving weapons of mass destruction? Would this be the government that has exempted us from the Geneva Convention by a consistent and willful use of torture? Would this be the government that has unabashedly bailed out Wall Street and numerous corporations by giving away the national treasury and drowning our country in trillions of dollars of debt? Would this be the government that has suspended the Bill of Rights by spying on innocent citizens through illegal wiretaps and spying on emails? Would this be the government that has suspended Posse Comitatus by deploying combat troops within our own country and using them to control civil protest?
Apparently. So please stop helping me. Your so-called logical conclusions always seem to lead back to the idea that our government is justified in doing whatever it wants because things could actually be a lot worse. That's a big step beyond being intellectually lazy as it amounts to justification for absolute tyranny.
It follows then that I'm not personally offended by those who disagree with me, but I am offended by the kind of short-sighted, right wing knee jerk silliness that pervades your postings. Mockery is all you have; but of course, it's been the trademark of our government for the last eight years. It's what's brought our country into a major depression and thrown away what little the American working class has managed to scrape together. It's what's turned so much of the world against us because America Home of the Free has become Amerika, Home of Corporate Profits, and Land of Torture.
As far as intellectual laziness and hypocrisy goes, you swallow the government propaganda hook line and sinker. But maybe that's what they pay you for?
I understand perfectly, changing the name dosen't change what it is. If it kills the fish it is toxic. If it is heavy metals it will not go away anytime soon and with all the waterways in the world becoming more acidic from burning fossil fuels it will continue to leach into the water for many years. You can replant till your blue in the face with the same result, dead fish. Just because we were ignorant in the past dosen't mean we need to be now. The City of Seattle allows almost no human activity in the cities watershed. Gee, I wonder why? In 100 years drinkable water will be the new gold.
Again,noone knows if this article states that the water is going to be toxic.Assumptions?,or does someone know for a fact?
Did you see Bush today making no apologies for error of NO WMD? He must have received my letter,..:cc: China, Queen Elizabeth, GOP, Caryle.com, and host of other folks arouns the globe. lol Who says writing letters to head of state and any other country doesn't get noticed.
I think if gold is selling @ $900 an OZ, mines can afford to find a no-toxic solution to teir tailings w/o dumping all their garbage in a clean lake.
(deltadoug, I wrote this just for you,...edit away)
Freedarfur thinks: "Who in their right or left mind thinks the Supreme Court is going to over rule a lower court on this issue."
In case you didn't notice from the last big Alaska case to go to the supreme court, that being of course the Exxon spill punitive case, we should all be starting to realize something. The supreme court is now stacked in favor of corporations and I see no reason to think (and obviously so does Coeur) that they wont let the mine do whatever they want to do.
Yeah, let 'em dump the tailins'! Those gosh-derned enviern-mentalists don't know a dadgum thing. Everybody knows REAL Alaskans always support plundering and killing off our state's natural resources with no thought of the future consequences.
Here is a breakdown of how gold was used in 2007:
Jewelry: 2,399 tons
Electronics: 310 tons
Bar hoarding: 235 tons
Official coins: 137 tons
Other industrial: 92 tons
Medals and special coins: 72 tons
Dentistry: 58 tons
Exchange traded funds: 253 tons
If you don't like gold mines, look at the jewelry you buy. As far as electronics, we have enough gold already stockpiled to last us virtually forever. Yet we are now digging up the earth with enormous mines all over the world, many large enough to be seen from space. I don't have any real qualm over small locally owned mines, but these corporate owned behemoths are a completely different story. As for they "reclaiming" the land afterwords, good luck enforcing that! They will Exxon the state to death with legal motions.
Coeur Alaska, Inc. proposes to construct a dam that will raise the water level in Lower Slate Lake
by about 85 feet; increasing the size of the lake from about 20 to 56 acres, and flooding the majority
of Mid-Lake Creek, the main inflow to Lower Slate Lake. Mine tailings will be stored in the lake.
Mid-Lake Slate Creek will be diverted around the TSF during operations. Downstream fish passage
will be provided by either manual relocation of fish or through the diversion. The TSF will be used
for approximately twelve (12) years and then reclaimed to provide fish and wildlife habitat
equivalent to the existing habitat. At reclamation, downstream migration would be provided via a
spillway located on the west side of the dam. This project was found consistent with the Alaska
Coastal Management Program on 04/25/2005.....
http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/mining/largemi...
Slate Creek below Lower Slate Lake has been specified as being important for the migration,
spawning or rearing ofanadromous fishes in accordance with AS 41. 14.870(a). However, a
permanent barrier to the upstream migration of anadromous fish is located approximately
one mile below the proposed dam near the confluence of East and West Fork Slate Creek.
. Lower Slate Lake is a deeply incised 20-acre lake up to 50 feet deep. The lake has
populations of resident Dolly Varden char and three-spine stickleback. Productivity of the
lower lake is relatively low compared to Upper Slate Lake, largely because it is deep and
lacks substantial shallow littoral habitat and productive inlet streams. The lower lake
provides rearing habitat for Dolly Varden char, but spawning has not been documented in
the lower lake or inlet streams. Recruitment of Dolly Varden char comes from fish spawned
in inlet streams to Upper Slate Lake which enter Lower Slate Lake via Mid-Lake Slate Creek
. The tailings in Lower Slate Lake are expected to have very low toxicity. Following
reclamation, the larger and shallower lake is expected to provide habitat for
macroinvertebrates and forage fish that will support a population of Dolly Varden char. If
monitoring shows the tailings are not suitable for colonization, the tailings will be capped
with clean material. We anticipate the reclaimed area will provide over-wintering,
spawning, and rearing habitat for Dolly Varden char.
. Upper Slate Lake is not expected to be affected by the dam and will provide seed
populations of fish, invertebrates, plants, and wildlife native to the lake system during the
reclamation of the lower lake.
. In order to assure that there are adequate flows to maintain conditions for spawning,
incubation, rearing and migration of fish in Slate Creek, water withdrawals will not be
allowed when natural flows are below the in-stream flow schedule specified in Water Right
LAS 24486.
Therefore, in accordance with AS 41.14.840 and AS 41.14.870(d) project approval is hereby given
subject to the following stipulations:'
1. Prior to construction, Coeur Alaska, Inc. shall provide plans and specifications to the Office
of Habitat Management and Permitting for review and approval for the earthen fill dam to be
constructed near the outlet of Lower Slate Lake. Plans and specifications must address how
safe downstream passage of fish will be provided during construction and operation of the
facility and how dam and spillway design will provide for safe downstream passage after
closure of the facility.
http://dnr.alaska.gov/mlw/mining/largemi...
"Again,noone knows if this article states that the water is going to be toxic.Assumptions?,or does someone know for a fact?"
It may be toxic, or not. Once it has been discovered to be toxic it is too late. The country is riddled with closed down mines where there is pollution everywhere. The question is, if they do pollute the lake at the Kensington mine and it flows into Berners Bay, it will then be too late. Couer will try to cover up and then disappear overnight and the lawsuits will fly. The real harm however wont be to Berners Bay, but to the almost countless other lakes, rivers, and bays that will occur because the precedence was set at Kensington and now every mine in the country will want to dump their waste in a lake, river or sea in order to maximize profits and to hell with the consequences afterwards.
My Turn: Correcting false claims about Lower Slate Lake Duff W. Mitchell
I am writing in response to the My Turn of Mr. Lindekugel of SEACC/Sierra Club to clarify some statements related to the mine tailings at Lower Slate Lake.
Three Native corporations (Goldbelt Corp., Klukwan Inc., and Kake Tribal Corporation) reviewed Coeur Alaska’s environmental plan during the planning process to develop a plan to rehabilitate Lower Slate Lake. The plan intervenes and counters the diminishing "wetlands" that is occurring in the City and Borough of Juneau. Mr. Lindekugel is not merely a little loose with his facts, but his letter marginalizes and completely ignores the decade-long Native Alaskan input, counseling and sincere effort that went into the tailings plan to ensure that it is environmentally safe and sound. Forty acres of wetland creation is a big deal to those of us who truly care about the environment. Pinocchio and or Lindekugel? You decide.
Fabrication 1. The use of the word "toxic" mine tailings. The ground-up earth that is going to be dumped into Lower Slate Lake is, in fact, "natural". This mine tailing slurry of fine silt is the same exact silt that streams out of Antler Creek into Berners Bay daily. The use of the word "toxic" is used to hype hysteria and sensationalism. If Antler Creek is "toxic" then why do salmon spawn there and why can we harvest shellfish such as clams and crabs there? I suppose water is toxic too if you drink too much.
http://www.kensingtongold.com/documents/...
Fabrication 2. "The tailings would have a pH level approximately equal to ammonia". Shocking but untrue. The pH level of the crushed rock and earthen mix is the same as what comes out of the ground. The earth does not smell like ammonia; there is no ammonia at the mill site; the tailings lake will not smell like a swimming pool. Ammonia has a pH of 10 to 11. The tailings will be pH-neutral. Jokingly, I am not so sure that Mr. Lindekugel hasn’t confused his cleaning agents with his bottled water or other liquid substances over the holiday.
http://www.kensingtongold.com/documents/...
Least shocking revelation of the new year: glacierles works for the government.
Fabrication 3. "... Killing all the fish and other aquatic life in the lake". Mr. Lindekugel knows Lower Slate Lake is an unproductive and algae-infested dying lake that is being choked off from oxygen. The primary marine life is sticklebacks and "no-see-um" larvae. However, the Kensington Mine tailings intervention not only cleans up and oxygenates, but expands approximately 40 acres of prime wetlands on our coastal waterfowl flyway to this very lake. Instead of "killing all the fish and aquatic life in the lake", the mining intervention will convert this dying lake into a productive, living and growing lake, increasing Berners Bay waterfowl, marine life and forest animals. Why this salient fact is always ignored by SEACC and for that matter, the Empire?
Fabrication 4. The Kensington Mine is not the Pebble Mine and the comparison of the two operations is like comparing Christmas with Halloween. Each mines’ impact on the environment must be weighed individually on its own merits, facts, and circumstances.
http://www.kensingtongold.com/documents/...
Fabrication 5. "Alaskans won’t get a dime in state revenue from the Kensington mine". From the FSEIS: Annual total tax revenue estimated using the IMPLAN model approaches $18.4 million (2002 dollars), about $8.3 million of which would be directed to the federal government. The Alaska state and CBJ governments would receive about $10.1 million of the total tax receipts. Additional property taxes accruing to the local government are estimated to exceed $1.4 million on an annual basis. How many millions of dollars annually will SEACC contribute to the city, our schools or state of Alaska coffers?
The Kensington Mine gives the Southeast Region "Christmas gifts": diversification of our economy, a larger tax base, more than 200 jobs, expanded schools, a better future for many Native Alaskans, and an increase in wetlands that increases the number of waterfowl, marine life and game in Berners Bay. On the other hand, SEACC and Mr. Lindekugel’s Halloween masquerade, as some environmental fairy godmother to Pinocchio, is only the pretty face to their "Grim Reaper Grinch" agenda. SEACC obviously condones the use of fabrications and facades to justify the means to stop responsible and environmentally sound development. SEACC and Mr. Lindekugel’s New Year’s message demonstrates that they are truly the Grinch that is trying to steal Southeast Alaska’s Christmas presents.
As an alternative to being the Grinch, SEACC and Mr. Lindekugel should drop its lawsuit against the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers and work together with Southeast Alaskans, the Native Corporations and Coeur Alaska to protect our environment and simultaneously create a healthy future for Southeast Alaskans. Let’s deposit the natural and nontoxic mine tailings into the bottom of Lower Slate Lake and create new, clean and productive wetlands for generations of man and wildlife to enjoy.
Duff W. Mitchell is the chief operating officer for Kake Tribal Corp.
http://www.kensingtongold.com/documents/...
I DARE YOU TO LOOK AT THIS LINK --->
http://www.innovx.com/
This device detects the presence of metals down to parts per billion.
These devices are commonly used in the mining industry, and are used by scientists who do environmental monitoring too.
You can go to any lake full of natural fish and with a handheld-XRF spectroscope you can detect mercury and copper levels much higher than you would expect, and the fish are doing just fine, been that way for 10,000years..
..but if you rapidly shift the chemistry of a lake a tiny bit you may or may not get a fish-kill..
this may or may-not correlate to an increased presence of metals.
A properly managed mining operation will use spectroscopes to monitor quality control at all times..
this can be done with fully computerized fiberoptic specrometers like these--->
http://www.photon-control.com/spectrosco...
Mine-tailings can be made to be a consistently clean non-toxic product.
That said, many mine managers are dumber than a box of rocks..
even the big mine companies are loaded with idiots and cheats.
Does anybody know what an ecology block is??
http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&am...
..it's a block of concrete designed to be used for erosion control and retaining walls.
Coeur-Kensington was directed by the court to toss onto CometBeach on the east side of LynnCanal 2million tons of PortlandCement mixed with mine tailings. The mine will produce primarily Gold and Tellurium.
It seems they would rather waste time in court to prove a weakly argued precedent about lakes and mine-tailings, than to be at work making a profit.
I contacted Coeur-Kensington and suggested they look into producing ecology-blocks with their mine tailings as a side profit. There's tons of local market for these ecology-blocks all over SE-AK.
This would solve the problem by making more of a profit.
....the suggestion fell on deaf ears.
glacierles, This is not some extreme environmentalist agenda. The lawyer said the tailings will kill the lake. Do you really believe it's okay to kill the lake and surrounding area? If you do, then just say, "I don't see a problem with killing the lake." And if you don't, then don't mock people who feel the same way. I'm asking you honestly. Do you believe they should be able to dump the tailings in the lake?
Average_Joe - If the water wasn't toxic, why it kill the lake?
akbearable - Remember the eminent domain case too, in which they ruled that a corporation was able to take land from long-time homeowners for a shopping mall. Eminent domain was supposed to be for public projects like freeways, but like you said, the court has been stacked by corporate friendly judges. Conservatives squealed like stuck pigs about the court "legislating from the bench." It's amazing how much they squeal about stuff they're doing themselves! It just goes to show that the best defense is a good offense.
So, in regard to user6244's post, if "The tailings in Lower Slate Lake are expected to have very low toxicity," why will they kill the lake? Am I missing something here?
Please see fabrication #3.
Seems to answer your question well enough.
http://www.kensingtongold.com/documents/...
http://www.fakr.noaa.gov/habitat/letters...
more related letters for those with questions that the news miner could not find or did not have room for..
http://technology.infomine.com/articles/...
Wheeler said the Environmental Protection Agency specifically encouraged Coeur to consider using a nearby freshwater lake for tailings disposal "because they were uncomfortable" with the idea of ocean disposal of mine tailings. Lower Slate Lake--which has been the battleground pitting Coeur and state and federal regulators against SEACC and the Sierra Club-is actually clearer today than it was before Coeur came, Wheeler asserted.
"The water was unclean before Coeur came," he claimed. "The water did not meet state quality standards in its natural state," a situation which he said had been confirmed by every regulatory agency involved.
"I contacted Coeur-Kensington and suggested they look into producing ecology-blocks with their mine tailings as a side profit. There's tons of local market for these ecology-blocks all over SE-AK.
This would solve the problem by making more of a profit.
....the suggestion fell on deaf ears."
Could it be that the deaf ears is because Couer is looking at the big picture, that being the next mine after Kensington, and the next one as well? The potential profits from being able to dump waste in lakes in the future is huge. They already had a plan for an above ground disposal that met with everyone's satisfaction, including EPA and the environmental organizations but have chosen to fight this one instead. However if they can get this precedent past the Supreme Court then they will have scored a huge victory for mining corporations all over the US. If they win this one, the next mine where their is a convenient lake to dump their waste they will all be able to point to Kensington.
So why did the mine's attorney say the tailings would kill the lake? And why didn't he specify that the lake was near dead anyway? It seems like that would have been a pretty important part of his argument.
Wheeler also questioned why the environmental opposition would now state that it supports dry tailings disposal for the site when the previously approved dry tailings plan would have resulted in a net loss of more than 160 acres while the Lower Slate Lake option "would eliminate only 3.4 acres of wetlands."
He asserted that the dry tailings facility permitting is no long valid for the Kensington mining operation which is being downsized from its original 4,000tpd to 2,000tpd "with a smaller environmental footprint, dramatically less fuel consumption and storage needs, and overall lower impacts."
"...Any further review of DTF (Dry Tailings Facility) or any other modified tailings proposal would require the complete cooperative of the plaintiffs to expedite any additional permitting needs so that the mine can begin production," according to Wheeler. "It should be remembered that the site is comprised of at least 85% wetlands or waters of the U.S. The same legal principle that currently stalled tailings management at Kensington and the mine going into production would again apply-the same exact contested issue."
"Since 1982 the law has prohibited new gold mines from discharging waste into lakes or rivers. The Army Corps permit would allow the discharge."
There it is, the reason for all the fuss at the Kensington Mine. This doesn't have anything to do with this particular mine itself, but is all about changing this law that has been on the books for over 25 years. The dry stack tailing storage would have been more expensive, but not prohibitively so. Couer has stuck its finger up in the air, noticed a change in the political winds and chose this mine at this time as the test case to get the clean water act overturned by the CORPORATION friendly Supreme Court. Huge $$'s are at stake over the next 50 years.. All over a more or less useless metal.
Joe---
See, this is how assumptions work. You assume that since I work for the government, that somehow I am a propagandist and a stooge.
You knucklehead, I'm a freakin' mailman. As far as I know, President Bush has not used any mailmen as policy advisers (although that's not a bad idea).
I have no authority over the war in Iraq, environmental issues, or any kind of policy. I deliver bills and advertisements. Christmas boxes and birthday cards. The majority of my colleagues are pro-Democrat. I used to be. That was the union line that I used to buy hook, line, and sinker. I've met important national Democratic leaders when I served as a union rep. After 9/11, I began to think for myself. You do recall that little incident, don't you? Perhaps it was before your time.
But you, in your limited wisdom, make all the wrong assumptions. Why, because you believe what they tell you to believe. You are what Joe Stalin used to call a "useful idiot". If it's anti-American, anti-capitalist, anti-freedom, then hell yea, you're all for it.
Fortunately, for you, help is on the way. Next Tuesday the world will become a better place for you when Barack Obama is inaugurated. The Obama administration will be on your side on environmental issues and national security issues. When there is a vacancy on the Supreme Court, he will not appoint another Clarence Thomas.
He might even allow you to fill my backyard with poop, and send me to a slave labor camp. I hope not. But given the liberal frenzy posted here, one never knows.
"You knucklehead, I'm a freakin' mailman. "
So? who cares?
"SEACC, Sierra Club and Lynn Canal Conservation have told you that no mine has been granted approval to place tailings in the waters of the U.S. since the passage of the Clear Water Act. In fact, Greens Creek, Pogo and Fort Knox, only to mention a few, have been approved by the Corps of Engineers, EPA and the Alaska Department of Conservation to place treated tailings into waters of the U.S. after exhaustive studies and a permitting process unlike Kensington."
Yep save the damn lake and go for the dry tailings wiping out 160 acres of wetland..as opposed to using the O2 depleted lake of 3.2 acres that only grows no-see-ums and O2 depleting algea,get the damn anti-s to agree to it by signing a contract that they will not put up more lawsuits..if the dry tailings permit goes through is accepted.
Let the lake stay naturally dead..
Glaceries,
Thank you, thank you, thank you for giving me such a chuckle. You've really brightened my day. I'm so happy you've learned to think for yourself. Imagine, a rightwing reactionary accusing those he disagrees with of being a communist and invoking 9/11 to attempt to prove his point. That is some original thinking, yep. So it certainly follows that I must be anti-American, anti-capitalist, and anti-freedom. Golly, I never would have expected that.
I'm floored. I'm flabbergasted. I'm even speechless but (praise the Lord) my fingers still work.
I guess you win. Thank you for teaching me what a true American really is. All this time I thought it had something to do with Freedom of Speech and the rights of the individual.
Guess I'll go rethink my position. Now I'm enlightened. Who really needs a clean environment when you're living in a fantasy?
ab---
That hurts. Why you got to be so personal in your insults?
Oh, that's right. You're a liberal.
Joe--
As I recall, and as you can see by rolling up the comments, I've not said that you are a communist. I did say that I thought that you were receptive of anti-American, anti-capitalist, and anti-freedom ideology. A "useful idiot". You've not said anything that would convince me otherwise.
I don't want to infringe on your freedoms. You are the one that said, "Jail this scum, or better yet put them in forced labor camps until the {sic} clean up their own filth." That doesn't sound like the American way that I revere, of justice, and public debate. Sounds more like vigilantism to me.
""SEACC, Sierra Club and Lynn Canal Conservation have told you that no mine has been granted approval to place tailings in the waters of the U.S. since the passage of the Clear Water Act. In fact, Greens Creek, Pogo and Fort Knox, only to mention a few, have been approved by the Corps of Engineers,"
The actual claim from the environmentalist is this: "Environmentalists say the current permit is the first to authorize the discharge of mining process wastewater into a navigable waterway."
Ft Knox, not a navigable waterway. Pogo, I do believe they made promises to the point that there would be zero waste dumped into the headwaters. As for Greens Creek, from what I have read it is a surface storage facility.
"According to KGCMC, based on known and anticipated ore reserves, the mine has a remaining
life of approximately 22 years and will require a surface disposal capacity for roughly 6 million
tons of tailings. Under the current permit, however, the existing tailings facility has capacity for
only 1 million tons. In 2001, the Forest Service began an extensive NEPA process to evaluate
the impacts of doubling the size of the acid-generating tailings dump to accommodate an
increased mine life.
In 2000, Kennecott hired an independent consultant, Shepherd Miller, Inc., to assist the
company and state and federal agencies in a review of the mine’s operations. Their report
documents releases of contaminants from unprotected waste piles and significant potential for
acid production in the tailings pile if left exposed to oxygen. The mine’s original NEPA
assessments (the original 1983 Environmental Impact Statement, and two subsequent
Environmental Assessments in 1988 and 1992) claimed low potential for waste rock and tailings
to generate acid and leach heavy metals.
(This comment was removed by the Newsminer.com staff. Please see our User Agreement for further information.)
Subsequent monitoring conducted by KGCMC in
2001 and 2002 showed increasing sulfate and heavy metals leaching from waste rock piles into
surface and ground waters. In February 2003, the DEC documented acid mine drainage at
Greens Creek. Acid mine drainage poses a serious threat to the land, waters, wildlife and salmon populations
within and around Admiralty Island National Monument. There is state scrutiny over concerns
about potential damage to the salmon-supporting Greens Creek, which flows just outside the
entrance to the mine. The state has required the mine to cap the tailings to prevent acid mine
drainage. KGCMC is also required to monitor the creek for contaminants. By law, the mine
must meet a higher operating standard (“no irreparable harm”) because it is located in a national
monument.
According to the EPA’s Toxic Release Inventory (TRI), for two consecutive years (1998-1999),
the Greens Creek mine was the second largest producer of toxic waste among all companies in
Alaska. It released 59 million pounds of toxic waste in 2000. Greens Creek ranked 16th among
mining companies nationwide in production of toxic waste. Greens Creek is also the state’s
largest discharger of persistent bioaccumulative and toxic chemicals (PBT’s), at 15,000 pounds
per year.
Reclamation and Bonding
The DEC is currently revising the company’s solid waste permit. According to the reclamation
plan, water treatment will be required for only 7 years, while maintenance and monitoring is
anticipated to last for 30 years. While the DEC recently required that the initial bond of $6
million be increased to $24 million, this is still insufficient, as there is no substantiation for the
above assumptions of length of time required for water treatment and general monitoring and
maintenance. This estimate also fails to consider inflation. There is a real concern on behalf of
the public that taxpayers could get stuck with enormous cleanup costs, should KGCMC go
bankrupt."
http://www.savethewildup.org/files/swup/...
LOOK!! I laughed right off the page!!
Glacierles,
In your case I could cheerfully leave out the "useful." How are forced labor camps unamerican? Our country has more people in jail than any other country on earth. That includes China, which, as you might have gleaned from your steely powers of observation is a communist country.
But, I did say those things and the point I was trying to make is that it's time to give the environment more importance that corporate profits. Equally obvious is the idea that nothing I could possibly say would convince you of anything. Face it, my friend, you're not here to debate. Since I am admittedly a card-carrying liberal I can use my powers to channel Stalin.
He tells me you've got our roles reversed..
Funny.
The words they're quoting within the article reminds me of the old Texan phrase, "Don't piss on my feet and try to tell me it's raining."
However, if the tailings is truly sandy inert particles with no chemical interference with nature, I don't see a problem. If there's a minute to moderate interference, they need to be stringently monitored by a (court appointed) unbiased third party. Moderate to high chemical interference should be frowned upon.
Joe---
Try the fine tuning mechanism. You are not getting good reception.
----------------
YMBC---
Does that bother you? I am an honest working man, how about yourself?
Maybe all those opposed to mining should show there contempt for any mining by ridding themselves of all that has been produced from mining....starting with there computer?
(actually there needs to be some give and take and mining continues and has continued to get better and better at preservation but it seems that even today despite alot of changes there are some that still wish to end all mining at all cost..)
I would like to see all those who despise mining all live together for a few months without the benefits of mining has brought.... I think they would change there tune soon after the ordeal...
Who knows G-less? Thanks, you give all of us hope!
Palin 2012
"Does that bother you? I am an honest working man,"
I am sure you are. Must be hard for you to be forced to reap the benefits of being in a union and yet hate its very existence. Wish I could somehow strip half your pay and all your benefits so as to be equal with someone working non-union. That might cause you to move a hair to the left, no?
I grew up in Nevada, aka the land of the Comstock silver and gold. The tailings from those mines can still be seen from the main road as you drive through the towns and each year there is another story about some kid who fell down an abandoned shaft. The waters and rivers around the area have mostly recovered from the effluent from the mines and there are fish and crustaceans that live in it, but you can't eat them. The levels of mercury that are within the rivers and water table around the mines are so high that each house on wellwater has to have a heavy metals filter to make it drinkable.
Do I believe that mining is evil? NO. Do I believe that stopping all mining is a good idea? NO. Do I consider the cost of greed(read inflation) to be overbearing to all who live on this earth and a pollutant to our social fabric of our souls? YES.
Granted- modern mining practices are lightyears advanced from the practices of the late 1800's and early 1900's but apart from allowing human beings to spread our trash (read squander vital resources) over a wider area from their natural concentrations, what does mining do? Yes, jobs is a buzzword these days, yes it is better to have people working than on welfare, but I ask what the unseen costs are of the mine?
The mine isn't the enemy here folks, it is the consumers who demand the cheapest products for the lowest price. In other words, the guilty party is us for buying the products that mining makes possible. Don't get me wrong here, I drive a car and fly a plane. I use fossil fuels and mineral materials and I LIKE it. I am however, appalled at the serious lack of recycling facilities within the state of Alaska. If we chose to not mine any new materials then the ones that we have become a finite resource and infinitely more expensive to use. The steel framed multi-story buildings in Anchorage will become too expensive to build to earthquake standards without the metal to reinforce them and the miles upon miles of rail track will become highly desired metal.
I hear many people up here protesting and spuming their hot air about how bad mines are but what I do not see is their presentations of alternative and cost-effective options.
I really look forwards to the replies to this. Don't stutter now...
"I would like to see all those who despise mining all live together for a few months without the benefits of mining has brought.... I think they would change there tune soon after the ordeal."
I'm not against all mining, just seems ridiculous to pit mine huge swaths of the earth for tiny amounts of gold. We already have huge amounts of stockpiled gold all around the world that would easily fill our needs . The rest all gets made into useless jewelery or is otherwise hoarded. It is insane to do what we are doing around the world to obtain more and more gold when all we need for the future has already been mined.
User,
Well said. I personally would like to see all those who think big corporations can be trusted to take care of the environment at the expense of profits, pay off our country's Wall Street bail out.
The sad truth is that our government has endorsed free market capitalism without adequate regulation and accountability. If the last eight years have proven nothing it's that this concept simply doesn't work. As others have pointed out, the precedent this particular case sets has global ramifications. Better one dead lake (if that's even the case) than a dead planet.
Peace out.
Oops, I meant AK.
But don't blame me, blame Stalin.
ab---
See, this is the danger of you thinking. You think that I am anti-union. I have no idea what you would base that on, given previous comments that I have made, except on your misconstrued idea that all union members must be liberal Democrats.
That's just not true.
President Reagan was able to understand that rank and file union members, from any industry, were basically "red, white, and blue" Americans. Thus beget the term "Reagan Democrats".
I have been a loyal union man for better than 30 years. I believe in many of the great accomplishments of organized labor. I disagree with President John Sweeney and the current leadership of the AFL-CIO. Today's labor leadership is nothing but a subsidiary of the Democratic party. We should be independent of the parties, pushing our agenda,i.e. freedom, justice, and quality of life. Not environmentalism, gay rights, or anti-Republicanism. The labor unions that I grew up in, and still revere, promoted justice and patriotism, not blame America first. We stood for Lech Walensa, the greatest labor leader of all time.
Now the labor movement leadership stands for Democrats. Nothing more.
Uh last I checked those big corps have to follow guidelines that have been fought over for years and continue to be. The corporations are trying to follow the ever changing guidelines and road blocks set up by government regulation with much input from environmental groups...
Government regulation set the guidelines for people purchasing homes and pressured banks into making these loans that resulted finally in many people in homes they could not afford.. energy prices pushed it into collapse.. there is much more too it but alot of times government regulations can have unintended consequences...
i read the first few comments, and that was enough to discourage me. i couldn't believe that glacierles and polarmark of all people seem to be unopposed to the blatant and complete annihilation of our lakes in the interest of a mining company that is BASED OUTSIDE OF ALASKA! they reject almost everything else that is drawn from out of state (like recycling) but they support this? where do people's allegiances really lie? i thought ALL alaskans would be in agreement on this issue. this company isn't even alaskan, for god's sake.
Unintended consequences such as huge government bailouts where too few people can actually say where the money went? Record profits? Week-long spa vacations? Monstrous executive salaries?
Golly, User. I guess I owe Exxon an apology.
Ok,
Let's look at this from a different point of view. Businesses are in business to make money. Big corporations are owned by their shareholders, and executives have a legal obligation to maximize the shareholders dollar.
That said, I will guarantee that dumping tailings into the lake is the cheapest way for them to get rid of excess. While I usually always disagree with every liberal on here, I must say that on this point they have my vote.
The gold company is going to knowingly dump chemical laced tailings into a lake. These chemicals are going to poison the waters. Whether or not citizens on this forum work for the government or not, we owe it to ourselves and future generations to preserve what we can and haven't already destroyed.
These corporate executives live for today and not tomorrow. If they poison the local water supply or harm from 1-1million people, the executives will be fired or quit and have a multi-million dollar severance package. THEY DON'T CARE. Cut some profit, go about this safely, and have an Alaska where your kids can grow up in.
According the gold chart posted by akbearable, jewelry is far and above the major use for it. What a frivolous thing to kill our environment for! Like akb said, if we don't like gold mines, quit buying gold jewelry. Electronics is a distant second, so it looks like if everybody quit buying gold body ornamentation, we'd could make substantial progress in lessening the poisoning of the environment.
People have (finally) become aware of how bad the diamond trade is regarding slavery and horrible treatment of people. Maybe if people knew that the gold they wear is responsible for polluting the earth so grossly, they might think twice about buying it. Four thousand tons of gold a year for vanity's sake is mind boggling. I wonder how many lakes that bling-bling killed last year alone.
Corporations can not be & should not be trusted to take care of our environment at the expense of their lucrative profits.
Corporations squeals like stuck pigs when they fail to protect our environment.
Corporations fail to compensation fairly or justly or timely.
Justice David Souter needs to throw this case out with a explicit legitimate NO on this ludicrous opportunistic case.
The lawyers & the corporation desires the lake & earth to emulate having deep vein thrombosis forming a hidden deadly blood clot in our lake & earth.
In alaska we are all aware of countless Corporation's histories of exploitation in our fine state & at what cost to alaskans, to our oceans, our waterways, our land.
A simple No on tailings being dumped into Lower Slate Lake.
.
user6244 put the political bait and switch down & slowly back away...the rhetoric is cutting off oxygen generated to your brain.
glacierles,
Great job with the posts today. I appreciate your zeal. Your 12:34 post had one thing missing. Humans. We are, especially Americans, the worst plague to ever hit the planet. There is not one single thing that we have managed to do that has not been panned by one group or another. (Sarcasm for the slow witted)
George Carlin said it best. I urge all of you to watch the following:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eScDfYzME...
The hubris expressed by the self serving is just too much.
Great link U.G. Carlin, RIP.
"Save the planet?!?!? %&(#$$$$$ we can't even take care of our $#&$(# selves!!!"
The action desired in the article is what gives mining a black eye; WTH. I know some small operators who aren't happy with this either.
UG---
It is a great Carlin routine.
Good thing opinions aren't facts. There should be a lot more information about the character of the tailings, and any slimes that result from the refining process. Some of you think that putting in a liner will solve the problem for all time-that's a laugh.
There are statutory thresholds that define what is considered toxic and what isn't. If it is toxic it should be processed (decomposed) further to reduce risk or sequestered in some way to prevent further release. Eventually as with the liner the bad thingies will probably get out.
I wonder where the mercury and cyanide came from? Was it brought here by the Thetans? Of maybe it is the product of dinosaur decomposition.
I see that Cyanide or Potassium Cyanide (KCN) is a form of a salt. So it seems that the salt could be recovered. The same goes for mercury, if it is still used for gold recovery (I don't know if it is or isn't)
However at the end of the day, the tailings or waste must go somewhere, and over time the toxics will probably be sequestered by some natural sedimentation or transport process (maybe the mercury can be reverted to cinnabar).
I think I am more worried about the exotic chemicals that we pee out into our environment courtesy of our friends in the pharmaceutical industry. No one is making the drug companies responsible for the fate of their products as far as I can tell, and their damage is more wide ranging that a lake in Alaska.
Don't even get me started on the plastics that have made it into the oceans
Q...Don't even get me started on the plastics that have made it into the oceans.../Q
Yeah, we'd have to rant at the whole human race on that one, and the pharmaceutical stuff. I don't think we could make the latter responsible, given their ingestion is decided by the users. And don't ferget-- that includes the illegal chemical hooch too; it still gets flushed down the toilet eventually. ;-P
Does anybody really believe that the greenies and tree huggers won't fight any mining activity anywhere in the United States? These left over mining materials had two places to go. In a dead lake or in a giant rock pile. Studies not paid for by any environmental group showed the overall benefit of the environmental scheme in this specific area to be dumping left over mining materials in the dead lake.
Would anybody be in court if the big rock pile option was used instead of the dead lake option? You bet cha! Environmental groups have money for lawyers and they got to do something to earn their keep.
Wake up folks. The sky is not falling. Dedicate your free time to whales or global warming and stop trying to halt a mining operation that followed all your environmental laws to get to where it is now ready to start mining according to your rules.
Look, it's rather simple. The general population doesn't really proper from gold mining. The owners of the mine prosper. The employees aren't paid all that well. There's plenty of gold everywhere.....just look in the pawn shops. We can't eat gold.
Why in hell should planet earth, one lake, or a lake full of fish suffer because gold mines make some people rich?
Look at Ft Knox. It's an expressway out there, and at the bottom a lake full of ???????
Will we all get a share of the wealth from any of these gold mines? NO
its OUR land. COUER will make the profit killing OUR fish and destroying OUR water.
i dont see that profit coming back to the public in any way other than jobs for a few people. where's the benefit to the rest of us?
it's just more money in the pockets of a few executives who can cut costs by making US deal with their trash.
the mining companies are given our land for their profit and leave US to clean up their mess? i think not!
"Mining supports many old alaskan families."
So did slavery, Average_Joe.
While the Kensington case specifically may be benign, the precedent this sets in stripping the Clean Water Act would be too much. We aren't putting the right price on economic development of large mining operations. The fact is, these mining companies can develop cleaner, more environmentally responsible ways of producing rock. For too long, we've just let them get away with doing less, polluting more, and collecting astronomical profits, while returning very little to Alaska. Were are the royalty taxes on minerals? Where are the mandates for local hire? And where is the local input for reclamation plans and environmental monitoring?
"old alaskan family" translation- "old money"
who do you really think helped build this town and state, oil companies or miners? The old families around this town with money, the quiet ones, where do you think they made it?
Just another thought, how hard would it be to hide money that was made from mining (for small operators anyway) as compared to the average guy who doesnt pull his living out of the ground? The old boys club didnt get that way because they dont watch out for their own you know.
Just look at the mining greed in South Africa!
We're not back in 1898. Well, those Ole Alaska families ought to spread the wealth around, ya know.
I worked for a mine(not Ft. Knox) out the Steese in 2007, and I'll tell you that even in the developmental stage, "the blind eye is ever-apparent" when they are trying to get gold. Talk about some backwards thinkers. Ft. Knox pays a starting wage of approximately 19/hr for a haul truck driver. That is, to say the least, an embarrassing wage for that type of work. They are burning over 23,000 gallons of diesel a day, and harvesting huge amounts of gold, while paying wages my 8 year old daughter would scoff at. I think the state should "ball up" and take on development like this and the natural gas pipeline themselves. At least then we could hope that decisions would be made in our best interest, monetarily and environmentally. Looking at a chart in the new National Geographic shows that 2,398.7 tons were used for jewelry in 2007, a mere 310.6 for electronics, and 57.8 for dentistry. Seems to me it's all about the bling. Around the world these big companies are pillaging the land and leaving these poor populations with little money and big health problems. And on another note, it might be a good idea for some of you to share phone numbers or something so you can take your petty arguments elsewhere.
Mamasan !! Lookin' good, thank you.
Yes Dove you have found my one link to socialism :)
WA WA WA sounds like the environmentalists are crying a river for us to fill in with tailings!!!!! what a bunch of uneducated bunch they are......if you don’t know the whole story of your opposition then stay out of the debate, stay out of the forests hugging trees, stay out of the oceans protecting whales from "deadly sonar", stay off the mines we work in to support our families, oh yea wasn’t Fairbanks kind of born around the mining industry?
akminerguy,
You're taking this personal. This story wasn't targeting you, nor your family, or anyone else you personally know for that matter. The subject at hand is a "proposed gold mine". Unless you are on the board for this outfit out of Idaho, you are not impacted.
I can't stand tree-huggers, but where do you draw the line when it comes to what these big companies can do? Step back and look at this objectively. They want to poison the waters. They aren't even trying to hide it or downplay it.
I don't even really care that it is one lake. However, a ruling in the gold companies favor will set a precedence. Then all companies can dump tailings into lakes. Then we end up with with those lakes poisoning our water supply. Then we end up with kids with 3 arms and people getting cancer in a small concentrated area when they're in their 40s. I'm not painting an unrealistic picture. It's happened before.
Also, there is the Clean Water Act of 1972. I'm not sure how the company lawyers plan to skirt this, but I reckon that's their job and they've found a loophole.
Hey chance maybe you missed the part about the proposed lake being O2 depleted with it's primary host being a larvae of the No-See-ums and algea... hardly a pristine lake teaming with fish and other assorted varieties of life people imagine they have stated in there letters of intent the lake will be returned to better than it's current state and bigger in about 13 years..I suppose you prefer that that heap tailings onto 300+ acres of wetlands instead of using the 3.2 acres of a essentially dead lake?
user,
No, actually I'd prefer if they quit poisoning things that don't need poisoning. I don't care if to you it's a "dead lake". It's the damn water supply, and nothing good can come of it. You'll come back and argue jobs and money for the local economy. It's outside Juneau, hardly local.
Where did this lawyer get his licence...what an absurd comment
More life after using it as a talings pond?...WTF.
I think care consideration should be planned...esp to the effects after & through the years as this goes on....what will the landscape & ecosystem be like in 20 yrs...is this a devastation our future will have to deal with....no doubt they will. & i see larger lakes of polluted ponds but no growth or abundance of life thats for sure.
http://www.cbc.ca/edmonton/features/fort...
user6244- Please tell me what life forms on this planet are the basis of the food chain? I know that looking through a microscope is similar to tunnel vision but you gotta use your brain.
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