Palin, Biden a lively pairing for veep debate
Published Tuesday, September 30, 2008
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Stumble It!WASHINGTON -- Sarah Palin brought something more effective than facts and figures to an agriculture debate in the Alaska governor's race. She packed an engaging disposition.
One of her opponents, Andrew Halcro, had memorized the complexities of the subject beforehand. He was super prepared. He might as well have stared out the window during the proceedings, for all it mattered.
"She did such a great job with just the glittering generalities and filling the room with her presence that people didn't care what she said about agriculture," Halcro says now. "Palin's a master at spending 45 seconds telling you what color the sky is," he adds, "and people will say, 'That's the greatest thing I ever heard.'"
Palin and her Democratic vice presidential rival, Joe Biden, each bring distinctive qualities and vulnerabilities to the campaign's only running-mate debate, Thursday in St. Louis. It's a potential gold mine and minefield for both.
Biden is a loquacious man of charm and detail with an agile yet unpredictable mind. He can bring the house down with a quip. Two decades ago, he brought his first presidential campaign down with a colossal faux pas in a debate at the Iowa State Fair.
The Delaware senator's debating experience stretches back to 1972 when, as Palin has noted, she was in second grade.
The first-term Alaska governor, however, is no newcomer to political debating, even if she's new to the big leagues. In 2006, she powered through some two dozen debates, first against an incumbent governor from her own party, then against a former governor from the other side, plus other rivals.
Then as now, she was disparaged as something of a podunk lightweight - one of the "so-called opponents," in the dismissive words of Frank Murkowski, the GOP governor she would unseat.
Then, she held her own or better in the crush of debates, upending Alaska's political establishment in the process with a one-two punch in the primaries and fall election.
She had a way of disarming opponents that made up for her lack of experience. Biden knows something about that, too.
In his first Senate debate, when he was just 29, he tried an unusual tactic: grace over gotcha.
After his Republican opponent flubbed a question, Biden pretended he didn't know the answer either, so as to avoid rudely upstaging him.
"I probably had better political instincts then than I have now," Biden writes in his recent memoirs.
"Today I'd probably win the point but lose the match because I'd be too busy ripping someone's head off with the facts."
Gulp.
A look at debate highlights and low moments for the running mates of Democrat Barack Obama and Republican John McCain:
The Palin effect, 2006
Palin hit some potholes in the blur of debates. Asked to name a good bill and a bad bill that the Legislature had passed that year, the small-town mayor drew a blank. In one debate, she proposed teaching creationism alongside evolution in schools: "Teach both." The next day, she backtracked.
Asked what she would do about rising dropout rates, she blandly offered: "We need to get kids excited about being in schools." Rivals rattled off specific programs they'd expand.
She skipped several debates entirely.
Even so, the former state oil-industry regulator knew the resource-ownership issues of the day and the arcana of the pipeline project that was central to the campaign. She was a quick study on other matters and generally fast on her feet when she was the lone voice on one side of an issue, wrestling with several opponents on the other.
The last debate of the campaign, Nov. 2, 2006, circulates online and has caused some consternation among Democratic-leaning bloggers who warn that Biden may not find her to be a pushover.
Her debate opponents that day were former Democratic Gov. Tony Knowles and Halcro, a liberal independent who was previously a Republican legislator.
In it, Palin fields questions about her conservative views on gay rights, stem cell research and abortion, and pointedly challenges the panelist who asks her a theoretical question that has since become real: What would you do if your daughter got pregnant?
"Again," Palin says evenly, "I would choose life, and certainly I'm quite confident that you're going to be asking my opponents those same scenarios."
Specifics flowed from her opponents on one issue after another. At the end, Palin didn't miss a beat when she was asked whether she'd give her rivals a job in her administration.
For Knowles: "Do they need a chef down there in Juneau? I know that that is what he enjoys doing."
For the studious Halcro: "Andrew Halcro would be the most awesome statistician that the state could even look for," she said with enthusiasm. "Yeah, Andrew would be the statistician."
Halcro runs the family car rental business in Anchorage, writes a popular blog critical of the Palin administration and has a radio talk show.
Biden: Polish and predicament
The way Biden recalls it, he rushed to the Aug. 23, 1987, Democratic primary debate in Iowa without time to prepare a closing statement. He meant to do so at the scene but rival Jesse Jackson approached him and took up precious minutes tipping him off to the question he was going to ask when each candidate got the chance to grill another.
Biden improvised at the close, reaching mentally into his stump speech and telling a story he had told before, about a coal mining family held back for generations by lack of opportunity.
Only this time, he neglected to credit the source - British Labor Party leader Neil Kinnock.
Biden made it his own story, about his own family, using Kinnock's words and even his inflections.
And to make matters worse, he spoke as if it had all just popped into his head.
"I started thinking, as I came over here," he began, "why is it that Joe Biden is the first in his family ever to go to university...."
The consequences were devastating, once the similarities were exposed and a few other tallish tales he'd told were added to the mix. Biden soon pulled out of the campaign.
It's safe to say he is going to his veep debate with a closing statement.
Overall, the 36-year Senate veteran is a polished debater who has learned a lot since his 1972 debut against Republican incumbent Sen. Cale Boggs.
Even in those days, though, he figured he might know too much for his own good.
When Boggs was asked about a genocide treaty important to the Jewish audience at the debate, he answered that he wasn't familiar with it and would have to check on the details.
"I knew the treaty, and I knew the answer cold," Biden says now.
"But I knew enough in 1972 to know that nobody in the audience wanted to see Boggs embarrassed - it would have been like clubbing the family's favorite uncle. So I said, 'I'm not sure. I promise I'll get back to you as well.'"
Biden proved to be a live wire in the primary debates of this season, though that didn't get him far - he dropped his second presidential bid after the opening contest in Iowa.
The foreign policy maven pressed his case on Iraq policy with zest and specifics, and proved adept at hurling zingers at Republicans. His putdown of former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani - "a noun, a verb and 9/11" - was one of the keepers of the campaign.
He also leavened debates by poking some fun at himself. When the longwinded senator was asked if he had the discipline needed on the world stage, he shot back with a timely display of brevity, the one-word answer, "Yes."
Community Discussion
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I wonder what the odds are she is replaced on the Rebublican ticket?
They won't replace her. It doesn't matter what she says since so many voters can't even define substance. This election sucks!
Don't know if they can Brain," but since many in recent days, including some IN the Republican Party are asking for just that....it's a logical question.
Tell you what. If she stutters and stammers her way through this debate Thursday as she's done in HANDPICKED interviews, the literal "boot in the backside" COULD BE Sarah getting her ass kicked right back to Alaska courtesy the McCain/Palin campaign jet.
And wasn't it just a few weeks ago everyone was riding the "Palin Love Affair" instead?
Politics? A fickle business indeed.
Anyone got Tina Fey's phone number? E-mail Address?
I hope she wears something hot!
And that sums it up Mackie, doesn't it?
old joe is gonna clean her clock. now all of america gets to see what a tard she really is. she is way out of her league, don't you think. maybe tina will stand in for her. wonder if she can pray the inexperance away? how many lies is she going to tell this week? maybe the ailen in mcains cheek will show it's self !! the republicains are chewing off thier nails off hoping sarah doesn't blow it. got to love all the excusses from the mcain- palin ticket. snl hit it on the head last week can't wait to see this weeks. It'll be great.
mackie that's hilarious!
It's funny that although Gov. Palin is starting to demonstrate her inexperience in an international light, that just isn't good enough for those who are jealous of her.
Some folks just can't stand that she is a lovely lady who is engaging. This appeal is being taken advantage of, and she seems to be in over her head - but it's not a reason to hate and vehemently criticize the woman.
These jealous folks would do better to keep their mouths shut.
OH BOY, I sure hope all you nay sayers are going to watch the debate. Old joe needs to clean out his own clock (appears to have alot of dust up there) before trys to clean out Sarah's. He has had more mis-speaks in the last month than Sarah ever thought of. I'm not sure he knows anything about what barrack stands for except change. And some of you believe anything you read, they aren't going to replace her, that's just plain stupid.
and bigjoe, really not very funny talking about a man's illness. truly a leftest thing to say. you probably have no nails left worrying about what Sarah will say. go watch you snl reruns, that's where your news appears to come from.
"They've managed to turn a self-confident and appealing candidate into one who is afraid of veering off her talking points. She's clearly studying and cramming, but it's like trying to cram for an exam when you haven't really taken the class."
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/09/30/b...
You want to talk about stuttering and stammering? Did you not see the presidential debate last Friday? "Ummm, ...er, er, er, ....ummmm, look. Ummmm, errrr, ....mmmmm, listen." Anyone can sound eloquent and learned when they read straight from the telemprompter.
she is an embarras. to our State.
Lemmings, I'm not sure who you're talking about.
How about McCain trying to pronounce Ahmadinejad? The only things I learned about McCain in the first debate are, he has a bracelet, he thinks Obama is naieve, and he was a POW.
And this was supposed to be the stronger of his debates?
I don't care if she cries and runs off the stage. I will still vote Republican!
Go Sarah!
Have we forgotten that America naturally goes for the underdog?
Remember Rocky, Cinderella Man, NY Giants, Winston Churchill, 1980 US Hockey, George Washington??
I mention this, because I could see a domineering, overconfident Biden falling like Goliath during or after the debate.
People, we are in deep trouble! We can't have Ken and Barbie trying to run this troubled Nation without the knowledge to correct the past errors. We can't have just a bright intelligent speaker either. The struggle between the two parties has driven a wedge so deep in our government that they can't fix the problem for fear of admitting the other might be right. This is one time when we need to pull together and come up with solutions that won't destroy us. Forget party loyalty as the only reason to vote one way or another. We need answers NOW or it won't matter who sits in the oval office.
ok
Did you know there are 4 other individuals running for President on 3rd party tickets? Do you wonder why they are not included in any debates? Do you think it is right that they are not included or covered by the Media?
Americans are all excited and getting fired up about this VP debate. We are distracted from some real issues - if we recognize that the Twin Parties are taking over why don't we DO something about it? Don't be afraid that voting 3rd party will be a spoiler for the lesser of two evils. They are pretty much the same. Take a stand and vote 3rd party if you find the Candidates do not measure up.
In the meantime, what great entertainment we have - the VP debate!
Thanks Mackie. Funniest thing I have read all week. I laughed so hard I think I soiled my armor.
Obama's Selma speech. Text as delivered.
By Lynn Sweeton March 5, 2007 7:35 AM
http://www.suntimes.com/
Interesting speech that Obama did. Especially with all the hoopla on Palin's religious beliefs.
I learned in the debate with McCain and Obama that Obama really knows how to be a "yes man". Is that really what we want in that office?
Hair Pile vs. Hair Plugs.
Clash of the Titans.
Val,
Never said anything about who "won". In fact, I am a lil' disappointed in Sen. McCain for not going after Sen. Obama. My comments were regarding previous posts that claimed Gov. Palin stuttered and stammered her way through the Couric interview.
So, McCain stumbled when trying to say the Iran leader's name. I could care less about proper pronunciation of terrorist-friendly leaders. Obama, on the other hand, makes a concerted effort to pronounce "Pakistan" like "Pock-ee-stahn" and "Taliban" like "Tal-ee-bahn." Who's he trying to impress?
Bring back the days when the first Bush called Saddam, "SAD-em." I love it, politically incorrect, or not.
lagirl, ... can I marry you? ;-)
There you go lala. I'm not the only girl to find love on the DNM website-- although I wasn't looking. This website is magic. I hope you and N_M_L will be very happy together.
Truthminer:
"Some folks just can't stand that she is a lovely lady who is engaging. This appeal is being taken advantage of, and she seems to be in over her head - but it's not a reason to hate and vehemently criticize the woman."
No. What is most disturbing is that Palin and her supporters believe that being a "lovely" and "engaging" lady should be enough to keep the press and U.S. citizens from holding her accountable.
I thought WOW, a nice story about Palin in the FDNM??!! No WAY! Who wrote it? I need to tell them thank you, it was a breath of fresh air!!
I looked and sure enough it wasn't our paper it was the AP.
I will have to check with my husband first. :)
Hi "Truthminer..."
Thought I'd respond to your "people being jealous of Sarah" remarks.
Are you serious?
Quick....hand to the forehead....feel if you're burning with a fever or something...because you couldn't be any further from the truth.
Jealous (falls out of chair laughing real hard.).
And "No More Lemmings," come on now!
I said Sarah "stuttered and stammered" her way through HANDPICKED interviews.
She hasn't even been grilled by the tough journalists yet, and she's failing miserably.
And speaking of last Friday's debate, forget that Obama stuttered and stammered to a degree, and STILL came with something eloquent....
Did you notice AFTER the debate.
The media asked for reaction from Sen. Joe Biden on the Obama side....and got it.
Waiting for reaction on the Republican side....you'd THINK they'd hand over McCain's RUNNING MATE for reaction.
Hahahahahahahahaha! No such luck......what does the viewing audience get? Rudy Guiliani!!!!! That's lovely.....!
They don't even trust Sarah Palin to give reaction to her Presidential running mate's performance.
If that doesn't tell you something.....man...faith is fleeting fast with the GOP.
Maybe they were afraid she say "I think I need a lifeline" when asked a tough question.
Don't get me wrong. Big "shouts" go out to Sarah for raising her hand and taking on such an endeavour.....but she's way out of her league.
The good thing is....you can always come home Sarah! We're here and waiting.
cant wait to watch her fail miserably at the debate. its going to be sooo funny. you people only like her because she gave everyone an extra 1200 dollars. stupid is as stupid does. oh and dont bother trying to respond to what i have said either i wont be reading these comments again. opinions are like _a_________s we all have one.
Hmmmm,
Big guy, I'm unsure that you can consider Katie Couric to be hand-picked. I do concede, however, the questions were probably known in advance.
I, for one, am always looking for a laugh and I did enjoy the SNL send-up of Palin, Obama, and others, but to correlate the "lifeline" gag with the real vice-presidential candidate is, at best, a large assumption of her true knowledge. In fact, that is one of the inherent dangers of the satirizing of our cutural, or iconic figures in American culture. George W. never said, "strategery," yet most would say he did when it was Will Ferrell. Dan Ackroyd's Carter was similar, as is Hammond's Clinton, Ferrell's Reno, etc., etc.
lagirl, ... I won't tell.
Guess, we will see what develops on Thursday.
sorry,..the best thing Sarah can do is shut up. She's embarrassing to Alaska by people with real intelligense.
If Joe looks smart they'll say he was beating up on her. If he doesn't, they'll say he's as dumb as she is. He has a tough line to walk.
And if Governor Palin does well in the debate, will all the naysayers come back here and admit they were wrong? Just wondering.......
Dove, that's spelled with a "c" (intelligence)...
:)
wright i cane't cee the keys, aplogi
If Joe doesn't say one word during the debate he will still be declared the winner. The circus sideshow will take care of herself.......
To all those, who can't grasp the controversy about Sarah,
...it's rather simple. I voted for Sarah, I supported her, still do, but she's the one who acts as though she knows what she is talking about, and says stupid things. "I represent the 6-pack Joes" what does that mean? "This financial bailout is about creating jobs and helping health care" ???????
I mean she gets really cocky, insulting, and sarcastic.
She has every reason to shine and be proud. I know, I know she's a small town girl with a lot of talent and smarts and ability, but grow up. I can't believe what no-one in Alaska dared talk about some of Sarah's past doings.
Creationism?
I stull(can't see keys,..."still") like Sarah, but she needs to tone it down some and polish her verbal delivery.
Why can't you see the keys? Maybe turn on the light....?
Palin's toast, no matter what her handlers try to do.
To quote Ron White: "You can't fix stupid."
Sarah is far from stupid. Setec try some time in those shoes.
Pat
okay i lied. i did read this again. she wont do good. did anyone else catch her impromptu interview at a philadelphia cheesesteak greasy spoon where michael rovito asked her questions? again. she put high heels from wasilla wal mart yet again. i am embarassed to be an alaskan.
as tina fey said
i can see russia from my house.
lmao. good times, and great oldies.
blindness blurry vision,...no glasses/medical solution
Pat Mcgraw....you are right....Sarah is not "stupid" and should not be referred to as such. She is, however, irrational and misguided, as evidenced by certain beliefs such as she thinks man and dinosaurs walked the earth together 6000 years ago. That scares the bejeebers out of me as this woman would be a heartbeat away from having her finger on the nuclear trigger! It is absolutely unacceptable in this day and age to allow someone with such bizarre beliefs to be in any position of power.....period!
Republicans are now asking Senator McCain to have her step down as they know the damage she has done and will continue to do. I'm sure he won't do so as surely he must surely know by now that the race is over.
And the McCain campaign appears to be leaving nothing to chance. Ms. Palin will spend her preparation time at Mr. McCain’s vacation compound in Sedona, with her husband and children. She is practicing for the debate with Steve Beigun, a former staff member of Mr. Bush’s National Security Council; Randy Scheunemann, Mr. McCain’s chief foreign policy aide; Mark Wallace, a deputy campaign manager for Mr. Bush’s 2004 re-election campaign; and Ms. Wallace, who was a communications director in the Bush White House.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/us/pol...
=================================
Mr. Scheunemann voiced Senator McCain’s concern over Russia’s use of energy for political leverage, and his support for the development of a common energy policy with Europe to avoid Russian monopolization of European energy supply. Senator McCain believes this important issue is a matter of national security for the United States.
http://www.georgianassociation.org/News....
====================================
Well, thank goodness us Alaskans have the freedom to build our own gasline and use our own gas without having to fight a political monopolization of our energy supply.......(;-P)
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk209...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oa3M4ou3k...
......flash/rumble
Republicans are actually asking McCain to have Palin step up to the podium. McCain is not doing anybody any favors by have her tow the party line. McCain has a month to figure this out and if he does he will win. There is only one candidate that in this contest that can energize the American people .
i also am embarrassed that some of you are Alaskans. i thought Alaskans put Alaska first.
roadtrip.....you have got to be kidding! You would ask Alaskans to vote for Palin/McCain only because she is an Alaskan and that Alaska would benefit more from her being vice president? That is about the most insane thing I've heard yet! And selfish!
Sorry to tell you that Obama has already energized the people of this nation and the polls backing that up very clearly. If you'll look at an electoral college map you will notice that Obama now has 249 votes to McCain's 163. Obama only needs 270 to win. Of the 10 undecided (battleground) states, Obama only needs anywhere from one to three of those states to win. Florida, for instance, has 27 electoral votes. That state alone would put Obama over the top. Minnesota and Wisconsin have 10 votes each and Obama is currently 3 to 4 points ahead in each of those states. Once again, winning them, without winning any of the other 8 will give Obama the win. There are quite a few other combinations of states that will assure an Obama victory.
It's over.
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