Legislators take aim at Interior Alaska gas bullet line
Published Monday, October 13, 2008
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — High energy costs, air quality concerns and ripe markets are rejuvenating local advocacy for an in-state natural gas line.
Interior legislators joined Enstar Natural Gas Company executives and engineers on a trip north Sept. 30 and Oct. 1, inspecting proposed routes and discussing challenges, such as the Atigun Pass chokepoint and a Yukon River crossing.
“I’m even more convinced that the bullet line gives us an opportunity to jump-start first gas for Alaskans,” said Rep. Mike Kelly, a Fairbanks Republican.
A line from the foothills, where Anadarko Petroleum Corporation is exploring, or the North Slope, where gas is already being produced, will “jump start” a larger gas line, Kelly said. Not only will Fairbanks get gas, but the construction will provide a supply of experienced Alaska workers ready to roll on a large line.
“We’ll have gas sooner, we’ll be ready for the big line and we’ll have a trained Alaskan work force,” Kelly said. “I saw nothing but positives.”
While the legislators said Enstar didn’t ask for any help on the trip north, government may do well simply to stay out of the way and allow the market to drive development, Kelly said. The state also could speed things along by smoothing permitting processes with a coordinated, focused effort.
Financial assistance isn’t even out of the question, he said, providing a project “looks like a wise investment to the state.”
Sen. Joe Thomas, a Fairbanks Democrat, said a bullet line holds great potential in establishing an in-state market now, well in advance of a large-diameter line.
“It’s a great opportunity to bring gas,” he said. “It also would allow us to sell more of our resource, and ensure that a large-inch line, when it’s built, is at its capacity, too.”
He suggested state help could go as far as partial ownership.
Alaskans have heard several pipeline proposals. Those range from large-diameter lines — 48 inches — such as the one planned by TransCanada and the separate plan proposed by Denali — The Alaska Gas Line. Enstar offered a small-diameter, in-state line from Anadarko’s fields to Fairbanks, then south along the Parks Highway, and the Alaska Natural Gas Development Authority has proposed a similar route, but along the Richardson Highway. This summer, Gov. Sarah Palin announced Enstar, ANGDA and the state would work together on an in-state line, although ANGDA CEO Harold Heinze said no discussions have been held with Enstar on a public-private line.
Instead, Enstar is proceeding with its plans and so is ANGDA, including field work.
Enstar has committed $15 to $20 million to continue preliminary work on a route next year, spokesman Curtis Thayer said. He said Enstar is interested in working with the state, but called for an “independent analysis” of the two suggested routes from Fairbanks to Southcentral Alaska.
“Either route, Fairbanks gets gas,” Thayer said. “This is the closest Fairbanks has been to having a low-cost energy supply.”
The authority’s plan is to construct a line south to north, which could feed Cook Inlet gas to Fairbanks while a line is completed between Fairbanks and rich resources on the North Slope. By then, Southcentral would need a new supply, and the flow could be reversed.
“We think there’s a reasonably good ability on an interim basis, before the big pipeline gets here, to be able to actually move Cook Inlet gas into the Fairbanks area and, in particular, to help Golden Valley (Electric Association) in terms of power generation,” Heinze said. “The impact of that is fairly significant.”
Such a line could eventually serve as a sub-line to a large-diameter pipe, feeding gas to Southcentral from the proposed route running from Fairbanks into Canada.
Any route will require some “anchors,” large commercial or industrial customers that use high volumes of gas that help make building a line economically viable, explained Rep. Jay Ramras, a Fairbanks Republican.
One anchor could be the Agrium fertilizer plant at Kenai, which closed down in part because of natural gas supply issues at Cook Inlet. Plant owners have more than a year to decide whether to remove the plant, which is modular. Doing so could open a can of worms in the form of environmental issues, Ramras said. Those could be severe enough that Agrium could opt to restart its Kenai operations, pending a reliable gas supply.
Interior anchor industries also are promising, he said. Those include Flint Hills Resources’ North Pole Refinery, which burns oil to refine oil into retail products, and a possible new gold mine at Livengood, where International Tower Hill is exploring a promising find.
The gold mine could use as much natural gas as all of Fairbanks currently uses, while Flint Hills’ refinery could take five times as much, Ramras said.
The renewed prospect of getting natural gas to Fairbanks has spurred movement among local officials. Fairbanks Economic Development Corporation is launching a task force to evaluate options for an in-state gas line. The group’s first meeting will be hosted by borough Mayor Jim Whitaker and University of Alaska Fairbanks Chancellor Brian Rogers at 8 a.m. Oct. 22 at the Westmark Hotel.
“We’ve got to find some reasonable supply of energy,” Whitaker said, adding that local and state government should step up to push projects. “We have no choice but to take care of ourselves.”
Along with easing prices, natural gas could alleviate air quality concerns in the Fairbanks area, Whitaker said.
Contact staff writer Rena Delbridge at 459-7518.
Community Discussion
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LMAO
Suddenly, everyone is jumping on the bandwagon, conducting surveys, studies, holding conferences...like they're afraid no one will want the gas once they build the line.
This is a no-brainer; all they got to do is build it as far as Fairbanks and they'll sell as much gas as they can suck down the pipe.
My advice to the Enstar executives is contact 'distant thunder' c/o these threads; He'll get that tube built ASAP!
Back in 1958 they had the same discussion. "Golly, we can build a gasline form Gubik to Fairbanks".
50 years later we are having the same pipe dream.
So we build a high cost, low volume "bullet" line. Enstar screws Fairbanks with the highest cost gas in the USA- much the same as Flint Hills does with fuel oil, and gasoline.
Where is the savings for Fairbanks consumers? Why should Enstar price their gas at anything less than one penny below the cost of fuel oil?
Okay, so lets assume this insanity prevails, and we have two gas lines. One is a high cost, low volume (high tariff) bullet line, and the other is a large diameter, high volume line, a 48" line.
Which line are you going to buy gas from? The high tariff bullet line, or the low tariff 48" line? The second the real gasline gets built, not a soul would want gas from the Enstar line with the most expensive gas. What utility, absent massive corruption, would make a commitment to buy really expensive gas knowing that much lower cost gas from a real gasline would be only a few years behind the "bullet" line? Where would Enstar get the financing? My bank would not give such a scheme one nickel.
And should we trust Enstar? My, what short memories we have. Recall that it was Ben Stevens who was taking secret, deferred stock options from the parent company that owns Enstar, while pretending to be an honest representative.
And what did the chairman of ANGDA say about Enstar? "ANGDA certainly does not need Enstar for anything at all. They come to this new Palin Party with NOTHING. ANGDA doesn't need Enstar for anything at all. NOTHING. Enstar is in huge trouble. Bank it" At least one member of the Palin administration has the guts to tell it like it is. Not like the brilliant folks at DNR who embarrassed themselves and the governor by suggesting they would build a gasline form a dying reserve in Cook Inlet- the South to North insanity...
So then Enstar says with a straight face that they can go down the Parks Highway. BS. They would need an act of Congress, literally, to do so. (Ever heard of Denali National Park). And where is Enstar getting funds? Recall that Ted, father of Ben, got some federal earmark money for Enstar, and their current mouth piece, Curtis Thayer.
So why not do what the voters have asked be done? Build the All Alaska Gasline. Stop wasting time and money with TransCanada and their pretend gasline. Again, if the politicians had listened to the voters in 1999, we would have a real gasline in operation TODAY. We would also have another significant income stream for Alaska government. The oil throughput on the oil line is still declining... Where is the new source of revenue for Alaska?
Are you politicians going to impose an income tax, and maybe a sales tax too to replace the revenue you very well might not have in five or six years from oil?
The incompetence is staggering.
I was snoozin' in my EZ-chair when a little voice in my head said DenaliGuy is awake sending smoke-signals from the north flank of Denali.
LMAO....."He'll get that tube built ASAP!"
...yeah, with the sounds of Tennessee Ernie Ford singing "Sixteen Tons" playing thru the stereo in that FastFusion polypipe-welder.
Me and a handfull of locals from Coldfoot, Wiseman, Anaktuvuk, Allakaket and Bettles can lay 30,000 feet of 8" HDPE-gasline per day.
It's about 2million feet from Prudhoe to Fairbanks, and when building TAPS I walked about half of that.
People still keep looking at my slideshow everyday...
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk209...
...I have a bunch of extra stuff to add to it, and it needs much polishing, but with a 6-pack and a bowl of popcorn the reader eventually figures it out.
The big steel gasline is estimated to cost roughly $5000/foot..
..who's gonna finance this? How much is that gonna be in Ameros instead of Dollars?
In big round figures, 8" HDPE-gasline costs $20/foot.
WorldMarket price for PE80/PE100 polyethylene-pellet is about $2.50/lb.
An 8" HDPE-gasline from Prudhoe to FBX would weigh about 20million pounds.
Add $2mil for 20 little pump-stations.
...anybody got $100mil for a gasline?
Wanna see what a pipe extrusion machine looks like??......
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&am...
Where I come in handy this month is>>>
I can facilitate the speedy purchase of a suitable pipe-extrusion machine, and can have it air-freighted to Fairbanks.
Eventually Alaskans will be able to make our own poly-pellet from our ethane-C2H6.
CookInlet Gas is "dry-gas"
Foothills Gas is "dry-gas"
Beaufort/Chukchi Gas is "wet-gas"
wet-gas has 2-20% condensates in it>>
ethane, propane, butane, pentanes, acetylene, etc.
Propane can be shipped to FBX thru a buried polypipe year-round.
[it can be shipped in unburied polypipe when there's snow to minimize firehazard]
Ethane can be shipped to FBX thru polypipe during cold weather.
Boilingpoint of ethane is -127F
Boilingpoint of propane is -44F
12% of Prudhoe-Gas is ethane/propane -- this is our Royalty Gas.
How much propane in in Prudhoe?? = at least a few trillion cubic feet was there when I was there last, dunno if it's still there, maybe it went where the Credit Default Swaps went to??
I am all for a bullet line to Fairbanks, if for no other reason than it will provide some stabiliazatoin to our local economy in the short term via jobs. However I agree that there would need to be some sort of competition for the sales of the gas here or we will get screwed like we are with Flint Hills etc.
Speaking of Flint, I would like to see the Legislature take up the price gouging of gas issue BEFORE the bullet line. Fixing this problem is something that can help people now not in ten years when the bullet line is finally accomplished.
I filled up last night at Fred Meyers for 3.83/gal (actually 3.73 with my discount) but this is still WAY more than is paid in the states that have all sorts of taxes on thier gas. This is GOUGING!
I had the thought while I was at the pump, what if WE THE PEOPLE were to stage a "sit-in" at the pumps during rush hours for say 1 week. Basically just park our cars at the gas pumps around town at the major retailers for a period of time much longer than it takes to gas up. We could potentially get the attention of the refineries. Just a thought as I fear that the state reps are not going to do anything, and we the people will need to do "something".
My next rhetorical question is:
How many gallons of water per hour does a 8" pipe at 100psi deliver?
[hint: take your truck and run over a fire hydrant]
How many gallons of LPG-propane per hour would that same pipe deliver?
[hint: LPG has about the same viscosity as water]
How many gallons of propane would I need to fuel my propane-powered motorhome around Alaska all winter?
[about 2000gallons would do me nicely if I was driving it everyday. But if I used the latest technology 500gallons would do the same]
...so, if I went to all the effort to build a LPG-gasline to FBX, I can get a whole winters worth of propane out of that 8"gasline in about 5minutes.
There's plenty of propane in Prudhoe to cook all of the KingCrab we can farm in Kodiak until we bring GTL-methane to syn-diesel online.
GTL-methane can be shipped all over Alaska thru polypipe.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPe2rXTte...
We can make enough polypipe from AK-ethane to bury the state in energy and communications infrastructure.
Wherever you're at in Alaska you could fill your jug with propane and send an email to mom within 10miles.
Everybody will be racing the IronDog with LPG-powered Sno-Go's
[and they'll get paid to inspect the gasline at the same time]
TowerHill wants to pulverize all the arsenic out of Money Knob with 5mw of power?
No Problemo....
And with enough polypipe we can make the heap-leach operation much more safe and efficient.
[happy fish]
Donlin Creek needs gas too...
long distance HDPE-gaslines amortize themselves much more quickly than steel-gaslines.
HDPE CNG-300psi 63"diameter ASTM-D2513 pipe extrusion machines are now available.
So, now it's possible to build a corrosionproof subsea gasline from Valdez to Seattle much faster and cheaper than blasting a big steel pipeline thru solid-rock mountains.
We could bury Alaska in polypipe&fiberoptic, gather most of the lost-orphan gas thereby increasing the reserves by 200%, export all of the surplus methane, and make a free poly-kayak for all Alaskans...and more... all for 25% of the estimated cost of the Big Steel Boondoggle.
Building a poly-pellet plant on a ship isn't a heck of a lot more difficult than converting an old rustbucket 350' KnotShip into a fish freezer-procrssor...
....been there done that too.
Not sure how much propane is left in the gas at Prudhoe. Those components are stripped from the gas as it is processed for re-injection and combined with the crude for shipping through TAPS.
Glad you picked up on DenaliGuy's smoke signals, DT.
Good to "see" you here again!
This is Jay Ramras
I saw a comment about price gouging concerning Enstar as the owner of the gas from Gubik field, and I wanted to offer a little commentary about how a small diameter gas pipeline would work. I'm not an expert, but I am an advocate.
The owner of the gas would be Anadarko--they hold the leases and would set the terms for sale--meaning the price of the gas.
The pipeline owner would be Enstar--or whoever their parent company is. They would be the transportation facility. They would apply to the RCA, the Regulatory Commission of Alaska, for a regulated rate, a tariff, on the pipe cost and maintenance, plus a reasonable rate of return, probably in the range of 11 to 12%.
Once the gas moved from Gubik, which is 60 miles south of Prudhoe, and the cost of a pipeline they estimate would be in the $3.3 to 4.0 billion range, it would enter the Fairbanks Natural Gas system. FNG at that time would also have a regulated rate (a regulated tariff, just like Golden Heart Utilities or GVEA).
Consumers would pay these three fees which would be embedded in their rate for a heat source. Cost of gas + from Gubik to Fairbanks (or Cook Inlet, depending on whether our community enjoyed distance sensitive rates) + transportation within the FNG system.
The Henry Hub price for gas this morning is $6.67 per mcf. If a tariff on a 20" pipeline was $2.50 per mcf and the local tariff for FNG was $2.00, then consumers would pay in the range of $11.00 per mcf.
The rate FNG presently charges is $22.91 per mcf. Enstar's rate will be just over $10.00 per mcf for Southcentral customers just after January 2009. Fairbanks has the country's highest rates for natural gas and Anchorage has the USA's lowest.
However, the RCA would require FNG to become a rate-regulated utility as soon as a stable, long-term source of gas emerged. There is a docket opened now to require rate regulation for FNG, so it is a certainty that they would be regulated by the time a pipeline is built into Fairbanks. This would address the concern over price gouging.
As for the cost equivalent, $11.00 per mcf gas would be a rate equivalent to approximately $2.00 per gallon of heating oil.
It is quite consistent with other communities for the Borough or State to make available low cost loans for consumers to switch their fuel source from diesel to natural gas. Enstar told us on our trip that they would anticipate Fairbanks would take approximately 5 years to convert to a gas economy.
Gasifying Flint Hills and Petrostar would reduce the feedstock required for refining fuel oil costs for people in the outlying areas of Fairbanks that might not be available for gas, or would only be available as the system is built out.
There's a million more things to say, but ultimately, we have to change our community's feedstock. We must move from being a diesel economy to a gas economy for Fairbanks to maintain a robust economy and quality of life.
How much ice fog would be produced by burning all that gas ?
How much carbon-dioxide would go up into the atmosphere ?
How many more dollars could we (the State) earn by selling the gas rather than burning it in Fairbanks ?
We have already invested $295 million in the Healy Clean Coal Project, with no return to date.
We have invested $150 million in the Susitna Dam Project with little to show for it.
Lately we invested $500 million with Trans-Canada hoping will get something for it.
If we finished even one of these projects it will greatly benefit Fairbanks.
We already have an under-utilized "pipeline" called the Anchorage-Fairbanks inter-tie. If we produced cheap, renewable, clean hydro-electric power from the Susitna Dam we can ship it up the inter-tie. We wouldn't have the ice fog or the carbon-dioxide that gas would produce. We wouldn't have the carbon-dioxide or particulates coal produces. The Chena could freeze in the winter. Our air would be cleaner.
With hydro-electricity we would have stable energy prices. The price of water doesn't change.
Once our gas is delivered to the lower 48 we will be locked to Henry Hub prices, which no doubt will continue to go up.
Jay: Why do you think it is acceptable for us to be paying nearly double the Henry Hub price for gas?
Henry,
I agree it is unacceptable for us to be paying so much for our natural gas supply.
This is why I solicited the signatures of 13 other legislators, including the Senate President and the Speaker of the House, to ask the RCA to open a docket on FNG to have them become a rate regulated utility.
Your question deserves to be answered and the RCA is the right entity to look into it. Enstar gas is $8.75 + cost of liquifying 20% + cost of transportation + cost of regasifying 8% + reasonable profit and overhead for FNG. But it sure is hard to get to $22.91 per mcf.
This is why we have opened the docket with the RCA. FNG serves 1,100 customers in Fairbanks. They should be required to disclose their variable costs and be required to come before the RCA for any rate increases.
FNG will be switching suppliers to Aurora on Jan 1, 2009. FNG customers should likely brace for an additional rate increase. jay
This is a great Opportunity for this Gasline to go thru the Gates of the Arctic and bring much needed Gas to Anaktuvuk Pass and Bettles and Evensville and remember the Summit in Anaktuvuk Pass is 2200 ft and the Pipeline don,t need to run thru Atigun summit and the cost savings would benefit this pipeline and a Road to the Park would be very Beneficial to the Golden heart city for Tourist and Economics.and remember this Gas belongs to all alaskans.
Steve Estes- You make the most reasonable point of all. Investing State money in Susitna makes the most sense for the short term. Hydropower would give Fairbanks low cost electricity, clean air (think zero emissions cheap electric heat) and could be done in five years if we really tried.
Jay, there is little incentive for Enstar to hold its cost down under the scenario you offer. Why keep costs down when you can just dump the costs on to consumers with high, inflated, tariffs.
Have we learned nothing from the fiasco of TAPS? Your buddies with Exxon and the other TAPS owners have demonstrably been screwing Alaskans with inflated TAPS tariffs for most of the last 30 years. They had no incentive to control costs on the construction of the oil line- it was all about screwing the other guy when they were building it, and then about screwing the state of Alaska and the people who live here after completion- with high tariffs.
Right now Enstar is a fart in the wind that provides political cover to politicians running for election. "See, we really do want a gasline- so says the politicians running for election".
Enstar has no established ROW, no engineering, no permits- on a scale of 1-10, where 10 indicates that they have all the engineering, permits, ROWs, and 1 means they have hot air about what they would like to do- Enstar gets about a 1.5. So any costs that it tosses out are just WAGS- Wild Ass Guesses.
And that brings to the fore the insanity of this. For about seven billon dollars the first phase of a real, (North Slope to Valdez) 48" gasline could be built to Fairbanks. Pipe for this line could be as little as two years away, if we ordered this year.
The insanity of the TransCanada deal is what the entire legislature was told- there are massive gas reserves in North America- in the 1,000's of trillions of feet, and underutilized capacity at LNG receiving terminals in the gulf. No one in the business believes a 40-60 billion dollar gasline through Canada is amortizable given the massive gas reserves that exist.
Industry experts derisively refer to the Canadian gas line as the "Pretend" gasline. Same goes for the CP line.
The only line that has solid economics is the gasline to Valdez- the line that Alaskans said that they wanted to see built.
Instead of doing what the voters want, we get politicians who have rejected the voters wishes, and what the state must have for a real future, and are embracing the bullet line folly just before election.
It seems like this would not only benefit Fairbanks, but some of the interior communities as well. It might breathe new life into places such as Ft Yukon... which are really suffering at the moment. If a bullet line can segway into some of these interior communities which might verywell be bypassed by the larger two lines, it would be a strong boon for the state.
What are your thoughts on that, Jay?
lakloey1 ---->
"Those components are stripped from the gas as it is processed for re-injection and combined with the crude for shipping through TAPS."
================================
Yup, that's 90% of the reason why the Exxon Valdez oil spill was such a huge disaster..
not just because Hazelwood was drinkin' Tangueray on the Rocks.
TAPS was originally permitted to carry only hi-viscosity crude at 150F temps.
If all of the partners in Alyeska weren't so busy enriching themselves by enriching the crude underground then the crude in the supertanker when it hit Bligh Reef would have stayed near the ship in a big congealed blob. Instead it gushed out in a big gassy runny soupy mess that was a big fire hazard for the first 48hours until the propane outgassed. The dissolved propane, butane and pentanes propelled the spill rapidly all over Prince William Sound.
Blow Me Shuddering Pipes!... said Popeye
The shuddering vibrations problem seen in TAPS is likely associated with too much condensate mixed with the crude.
Does anybody know the difference between a "Coiled Tanker" and a "Double Hulled Tanker" ?
Evidently SCOTUS does not care to know the difference.
This is just one of 10,000 Great American Mind-Boggles on my list.
The underlying cause of of the oil-spill disaster has yet to be fixed, and the next Alaska Governor that has the leadership skills that fixes this problem will likely have a long and bountiful political career.
Why not yet again reconfigure TAPS into a dual-purpose crude-&-gas pipeline? CP-&-BP would be wiser to invest in upgrading TAPS to schedule multi-product delivery to Valdez than to blow their billions on building "Denali, The Big Whopper"
Smart-Pig inspections can be done immediately after gas shipments because the gas cleans the crud out of the pipe when run with a turbo-scrubber-pig. And TAPS can be relined with a HDPE-sleeve to improve flow & corrosion resistance.
There's a reason why some big-league players are joining forces with Frank Pringle's Superheterodyne Hydrocarbon Company...
it's because the technology has the potential to totally revolutionize the way humans interact with hydrocarbons from America to Zimbabwe.
http://globalresourcecorp.ir.stockpr.com...
Hydrocarbon Gasification using this technology has become extremely efficient and environmentally safe.
The Oilygarchy cannot keep up with the decentralizing nature of progressive technology. Just like the break-up of Ma-Bell and the concomitant emergence of cell-phones. BTL biomass-to-liquids will someday allow poorfolk to brew their own environmentally friendly liquid fuels from backyard bio-waste.
[first you grind it into soup, then pump it into a simply made fuel-reformer that zaps it with modulated-electricity and microwaves over a bed of blacksands saved from your sluicebox]
We are now past "Peak Oil", not because we're running out of hydrocarbons, but because we're realizing that it was just an illusion. Peak-Oil only works for those fumblemantalists who are addicted to pounding square pegs into round holes.
Isanova, have you seen this map of the All Alaska Gasline?
http://www.mygasline.com/
This site shows the route of the voter preferred All Alaska Gasline, and the multiple gas delivery points for Alaska- including all the Interior villages.
It also shows the amount of money Fairbanks consumers would save with a real gasline.
hairbrain - Its actually fairly easy to convert a vehicle from gasoline to the combination gasoline/natural gas. Any mechanic can do it, and the kits are around $1000. With todays technology, it works like this in cold weather:
When the vehicle is first started, it runs on gasoline; the engine heat is used to warm the NG tanks, and there is a sensor that detects when the natural gas is warm enough to flow, and it automatically switches the engine to NG...should the NG tanks run out, the sensor also switches back to gasoline. The kits have a dash mounted indicator that keeps you informed of the conditions of your system.
Fuel economy is actually slightly improved by using NG, in addition to less particulates from the exhaust. Its not a bad system at all.
google "propane conversion for autos" to find more info, pricing, etc.
If Fairbanks legislators are successful in their efforts to get a bullet line to Fairbanks, then this is also an opportunity to get an off-take point at the Yukon River crossing to get gas barged down to all of our villages down river and our coastal villages. I hope that Rep. Kelly is open to that suggestion. I believe that ANGDA did a study on how that can be done and also one of the Interior organizations is involved in a proof of concept project. If we can get gas to our villages we would see our energy costs go down significantly from the cost of heating fuel and diesel for our current generators. I understand that diesel generators can be converted to using gas. I see a win-win for ALL Alaskans and hope that the Interior legislators can get this done.
Using a polypipe gas-gathering network on the N-slope will help to capture the billions of cubic feet of nat-gas that's lost to the 4Winds everyday. This orphan methane is 23times more powerful greenhouse gas than carbon-dioxide.
Alaska can actually earn carbon-credits for reducing the atmospheric load of this orphan-gas, and carefully using it to provide electric power to FBX won't add to the ice-fog problem.
[if you dig wayback into my DT-archives here you'll see I've already proposed a cheap&fun method for solving the FBX-icefog problem]
Investing private money in a polypipe extrusion machine makes the most sense for the short term. CNG-LPG-power would give Fairbanks low cost electricity, clean air (think zero emissions cheap electric heat) and could be done in two years if we really tried.
Step-1: Run an 8" CNG-gasline extension 30miles from Galbraith to Chandalar Shelf, and drop in a portable HVDC gas-powerplant there, and strip out the propane for trucking to FBX. Run the power south to Livengood.
Step-2: Take the profits from Step-1 and buy a LPG-tankership [different than a LNG-tankership >> MUCH CHEAPER] Use the LPG-tanker to run propane around the coast to Kodiak, and up the rivers.
Step-3: Take the profits from Step-2 and run 24" HDPE-CNG lines over Atigun, Oolah, Anaktuvuk, RedDog wastewater, Big-D to N-pole, etc.
Step-4: Hook up FBX to LPG first then soon after CNG.
Step-5: Set up an ethane/polypellet plant on a ship and make poly pellet wherever we can find/store ethane.
[once a pipe network gets set up from Prudhoe to Kenai, 1tcf ethane can be stored underground in Kenai]
....uh, too many steps, I forgot where I was dancing!
Andora---------
if ya take a careful look at my slideshow you'll see how underwater gaslines work. Barging gas down the Yukon from the bridge only works for propane. One, two, then three 24" CNG HDPE-gaslines can be sunk to the bottom of the Yukon River and large volumes of CNG can be piped to Galena, HolyCross, Aniak, Donlin Creek, Moore Creek, etc.
This will supply plenty of cheap gas year-round to RiverCity.
At Yukon Crossing Patton Bridge a portable HDPE-gasline extrusion machine can continuously extrude 2000' long sections of gasline, and these can be floated-&-fused at a surprisingly fast rate of deployment... super cheap too.. no access roads necessary.
http://s281.photobucket.com/albums/kk209...
......flash/rumble
2/3 of the people around Fairbanks live out side the city limits and will never see "gas".
Build a power line to the slope, burn the gas there and we get low cost electricity generated at our wall socket with a flip of a switch.
And, as a side effect "less ice fog"
1AkFox ----
Bottled Propane Gas goes everywhere.
Prudhoe Propane can immediately be distributed throughout Alaska, every single cabin in the state [including Savoonga] can benefit from at least a little bit of propane.
Propane actually makes a little less icefog than burning methane does.
I don't advocate propane to be the permanent solution to the energy mix..
..but it promises to help everybody over the widest area faster than anything else.
Don't build a gas-powerplant on the slope-- too much heat pollution for the sensitive methane-hydrates in the environment on the slope.. the ice over the lakes south of Barrow is thinner than usual this time of year.
If too much industry and powerplants happen on the N-slope you can kiss 1000trillion cubic feet of shallow methane-hydrate gas goodbye, plus many other negative effects too, like more devastating tundra fires like the big one in 2007.
Build the gas-powerplants south of the Brooks Range and use HDPE-CNG-gaslines to supply them.
HVDC will work well from Coldfoot to FBX.
KEEP IT COOL
The question is . What will this gas sell for per BTU in Fairbanks or Alaska ? Does the pipeline cross Federal land ? If so , can it be regulated , as far as the price is concerned ? Back in the Jimmy Carter Days gas was deregulated , that means it became a free market item , Enstar can sell it for what they choose , maybe a little below oil per BTU . If you don,t believe this just check the Missouri price of regular gasoline at the pump , then check the Fairbanks price , then think about that refinery just down the road , about fourteen miles and then think about those great at the pump prices we are getting on purchases of gasoline right here in good old Fairbanks . I remember what great promises that the refinery builders offered us if we would only support them in their bid to construct the refinery . The promise was we will only charge you a dollar or so more per gallon for gasoline , diesel , or heating oil than you could buy it for in the lower forty eight ( Missouri ) !!! Even if Enstar promised a price , you can't hold them to it . They or anyone that delivers gas to Fairbanks is in business to make money . So stop dreaming of cheap fuel , expensive energy is here to stay , unless there is a world wide depression . If there is a major depression , then oil will be cheap , but still more than in the lower forty eight .
I would like to keep it warm.
Some how my hearing seems to have failed and my mind can't focus on "pipe dreams".
The problem is caused by the pungent oder of burning bull chips.
We have talked, talked, hallucinated, dreamed, talked, studied, shoveled the bull, spread the bull, campaigned on the bull, eaten the bull and drank the bull's tea. I tired of it!
As far as I am concerned: Shut up and do something above and beyond barking at the moon, and kissing gas or coal company rump.
A Look what HAS BEEN be done:
In 1 year, Mr. Craft installed a 100 kw wind turbine at Delta Junction and is feeding power into the grid.
In 3(?) years, Burnie Karl has installed 500 kw of geothermal generated electricity. Burnie has 50 mkw that can be developed but not power line to grid.
By the way, there are at least 2 residential units and several commercial geothermal heat pumps in operation. They take ground heat - use it to heat the buildings at a very substantial savings below the cost of electricity, oil or gas heat.
when will you people get in your head there's not enough live bodies in alaska to make a gas line pay for itself without export.profit is the name big oil controls the gas alaska get's screwed i moved to alaska in 1980 first job the drilling co. doing test holes at livengood for the gas line.after 25 years i moved back south.their will be no gas line.it's a pipe dream.
lets just go nucular......??
DistantThunder.
I like propane heating stoves! When I was a kid my folks had one with some stone plates heated by the flame. The IR heat sure felt nice!
One nice feature, some models, operate without any electricity! So when, GVEVA takes a 5 hr coffee break after poofing a bird at -50 your house still has some heat!
However, central air and hot water take power to move the air or water around the house.
In Fairbanks, the moisture from combustion causes ice fog because of over development.
I like the idea of switching to electricity: ZERO ice fog/Co2 emissions, no stink, 100% efficiency NO fire hazards burning something and NO digging of the country side to install pipe.
Also, all the infrastructure is installed.
Just flip the switch.
jayramras........
Thanx a trillion for your very practical comments.
All of us kids playing kickball here on the Energy-Playground need a coach to add some structure and meaning to the game we play.
I take back everything everybody else said about you...(;-P)
1AkFox...........
Yeah, it's kinda hard to beat good ol' 'lectricity for convenience.
Try checking out the work of Prof.Randy Mills of Blacklightpower Inc.
http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Mills has recently announced the development of his prototype 50kw power-generator.
What does this gizmo use for fuel?---WATER
How Efficient is it?---Don't ask, otherwise we'd have to kill you.
Ha Ha!.. it's purported to get so much energy from shrinking the electron orbit of Hydrogen into Hydrinos that it could make combustion of hydrocarbons obsolete.
http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Show this to the gang at IBEW Local 1547
Did you bet your 401k on Black Light Power?
:0
--
My sinus is plugged today!
---- Kinetic Hydrogen Fusion---
Uncle Sam bet 10 billion this this one works.
https://lasers.llnl.gov/
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