Fairbanks teachers initiating 'work to rule' policy
Published Thursday, October 9, 2008
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS — Tired of working under an expired contract, some Fairbanks North Star Borough School District teachers have initiated a work to rule policy.
Work to rule means teachers are working to the exact requirements of their contracts and nothing more.
Fairbanks Education Association President Steve Laroe said teachers from various schools are meeting and deciding if they want to enact work to rule. Not all teachers are participating, and the ones who decide to are determining their own schedules, he said.
Superintendent Nancy Wagner said she has mixed feelings about work to rule because it is a teacher’s right but it is unfortunate because in almost all professions, including teaching, it takes more time than what is allotted in a contract to finish a workload.
Wagner said work to rule teachers would not attend voluntary councils and committees meetings or stay at faculty meetings that extend past an allotted time. The time teachers spend working outside of the classroom is not included in their contracts, Wagner said.
Laroe said teachers are contracted to be at the school half an hour before the start of the school day and stay half an hour after the students are dismissed. Teachers can be available to provide students extra help at those times only, Laroe said.
Teachers at schools such as Lathrop High School, Ben Eielson Junior/High School, Ticasuk Brown Elementary and Badger Road Elementary are considering or have participated in work to rule.
Work to rule is the latest development in the contract negotiation between FEA, the teacher’s union and the district. Both sides initially started bargaining in early May. The 2005-2008 contract expired June 30.
A second meeting in September reached an impasse, and the negotiations will now progress to a third round, a rare step for the negotiation process, said Gayle Pierce, labor relations director for the school district. FEA and the school district will now have to decide on an arbitrator to hear the arguments of both sides. The arbitrator will write an opinion, and then the school district and FEA will meet one final time for discussion. Both sides said it could be a lengthy process because there is a limited number of arbitrators, who all have busy schedules, and the fact that arbitrators have up to 30 days to write an opinion.
Laroe said the teachers can consider a labor strike only after the third round of talks does not end with a contract between FEA and the school union.
Both Laroe and Pierce said the two groups can meet and settle the contract dispute at anytime. The two groups met Sept. 30 but no agreement was reached.
Pierce said at the Sept. 30 meeting, the school district offered to add a new column or category based on amount of training and a annual step increases of $1,800 for the first two years of the contract and a 3 percent raise for the third year.
The proposed offer also addresses one of the district’s goals of improving the salary of entry-level teachers. Pierce said incoming teachers currently earn $37,969, which is less than what starting teachers make in the Anchorage School District and the Matanuska-Susitna Borough School District.
The proposal will increase the salary of incoming teachers to $40,904, which will raise the amount of money teachers earn when they advance in steps, Pierce said.
“We do think the offer is competitive,” Pierce said.
FEA wants a contract with a 4.5 percent raise for all teachers for every year in the contract, Laroe said.
At Tuesday night’s school board meeting, 15 teachers addressed the board members about their frustration over the lack of a new contract. Many more teachers were present but did not make public comments. Laroe said the attendance was not planned by the union and that the teachers showed up on their own.
“They wanted to show the board support for their team,” he said.
Community Discussion
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Huh, I was always taught, by my teachers, to ALWAYS strive to do more than the minimum work required for anything. I guess that doesn't apply when greed is the issue.
You people set great examples for our children, thanks.
Hmmmm.....
Every job I have ever had required you to do more than what was expected to succeed....even when you were 'off the clock'
Way to go teachers....way to teach our children that mediocrity is the key to success
Firemen, policemen, teachers, etc etc etc....it's all the same - -
Just a quick question of logic for Fairbanks Ed. Assoc. President Steve Laroe.
The concept of getting the support of students & parents to your cause from teachers initiating work to rule policy is questionable is it not?
I fail to see how a negative impact on those you logically wish to support you helps your cause. Maybe getting the students & your members to "bring or take it" to their attention to board meetings the value & your time & effort positively impacts. Publicly "invite" Superintendent Nancy Wagner, others, & the news to your schools to see your efforts in action. Take your efforts to the district with students & invite the news to hear from those most effected by teachers. Pictures & articles in the paper with staff & students. Try some truth of value & get it out very way possible. Try showing success at schools of students & community extra effort by teachers & students. District wide members of voluntary councils & committees meetings need to make their time mean value to the students & community & it's affects & effects on them. Negotiations are a lot like chess but also like Wall Street and as emotional as any skill mastered.
Bring the unified skills & commitment to our students up front & personal. Reach out & touch.
I think most of the community & students are feeling the impact of this now, it's not only a employee & employer issue. If teachers do initiate the work to rule policy, I think the square will shake at the sides if not blow out on the corners. The district, the teachers, the students, the commiunity.
Good luck to all.
I doubt that many people understand how many extra hours it takes to be a great teacher. I know that elementary teachers probably work an EXTRA 2 - 4 hours a day. (Just multiply 2 hours extra a day by 180 days and see that the district is getting an extra 51days a year UNPAID from many many teachers. This more than makes up for any time off in the summer.)
High school teachers, depending upon their subject, also work extra time. I remember as a high school English teacher many years ago, if I assigned an essay that meant tons of extra time. Think about it: if you have 120 student essays or even 100 (typically teachers have 5 classes of at least 25 students in each class). So, 100 essays multipled by 5 minutes per essay (and that's for a well-written, easy to read essay) to evaluate means an extra 500 minutes or a little more than 8 hours in one week -- and that's just for reading the essays, not for all the other lesson planning and preparation which would be on top of the essay evaluations.
I've said it in this paper before. It would be nice to make as much money as my plumber or the guy who pumps our septic. Or the hairdresser who charges $60 for a 20 minute haircut. There are many selfless people in teaching. We do not go into teaching because we are greedy; this field attracts caring, intelligent, and giving people. Those who wish to "get rich" go into more lucrative fields like business, law, and medicine. We just want our work acknowledged, and a fair break from a state that has billions in the bank.
I say go for it. Work to rule is their right. Teachers work hard teaching those children who desire to learn and babysit those children who don't. Give them a decent contract and I'm sure they will continue to work 60 hour weeks for 40 hours pay. It's still a bargain.
I agree. I don't think the public realizes what teachers put into our professions. High school teachers are easily putting multiple hours in every night...lesson planning and grading.
Yes every job has extra hours: you might have to put a few extra hours making a presentation here and there...but in teaching it is EVERYNIGHT and EVERYWEEKEND.
Sadly though, I don't see how a work to rule policy is going to prove a point to anybody. They should all call in sick on the same day, which would be legal, and see how the schools handle that.
For those of you who will bitch later about how much money administrators make, please remember that the admin and the teachers are in different unions!
Why is everyone blaming the teachers? They are being asked to work and do not even know what they are being paid! I have watched so many people (everyone in this town who complains about customer service take note) do the absolute minimum to get the paycheck every two weeks that it makes me sick! The community that sends their children to these people show this work ethic all the time, it was a matter of time until it was used by a union as a slow down work tactic, something that unions have done historically with success to get the negotiations that they wanted. Putting in that extra effort, and it is extra if they are not being compensated on any level besides self gratification from a job well done, is a choice; and when any one starts feeling under appreciated the amount of extra they put in diminishes quickly.
Get the arbitrators together, get more arbitrators trained if there are not enough, and get this going. During the eighties this cost our community after school programs, good teachers and good families that left our community. The schools in our area got a failing report with the standardized testing becuase we have teachers that are teaching classes ( to fill voids in staffing) they should not be; and in the whole process we are keeping teachers that would and could change our states grade on education by creating an enviornment that is not only harsher than the lower forty eight states but is in economic turmoil. Get a contract, get it together and quit thinking that the way to shave dollars is by short changing the employee at the ground level.
It has been said in these columns before and is usually left unanswered....
What, exactly, do you teachers feel is a 'fair' wage?
From the net:
"The average weekly wage in Fairbanks, AK is $842, which translates to $43,784 annually. Private Sector wages are $785 per week or roughly $40,820 per year, on average. State Government wages are $984 per week or $51,168 per year. Local Government wages are $701 per week or $36,452 per year. Federal Government wages are $1,220 per week or $63,440 per year. "
From http://www.eed.state.ak.us/FAQ.html
What is the average teacher salary in Alaska?
In 2007-2008, the average teacher salary in Alaska was about $56,757.95. The Statistics and Reports section on this website list additional information about teachers in Alaska.
From the above information, teachers, on average, make more than both the public and private sector averages...So - what do you require to be happy and 'feel' better?
(Oh - and you can't say costs are more in Fairbanks etc etc etc since we get that big fat Dividend to pay for fuel and other stuff)
Also, keep in mind that the High School Graduation rate for 2007 was 54.8%
One source of revenue for you all would be to drop the union...your 'dues' of $919.00/year would help a lot around the house, wouldn't it?
http://www.alaska.net/~fea/dues.html
Wait - the taxpayers are the ones really paying those dues - 1000 teachers in fairbanks (approx) = $919,000 in dues we taxpayers are paying PER YEAR!
You have to be kidding me!!!
My wife is a third year teacher, she gets paid for a 35 hour work week and that's it. And then she must, and let me repeat MUST, work an additional ten to twenty hours a week extra just to keep up with the demands of teaching this communities children. She has seriously contemplated going a getting a job at wal-mart, fred meyer etc, because then at least she would get paid for the time she works and it would equate to the same amount of money with about a tenth of the stress.
She is basically doing the most important job there is in our society and yet, we have people on here thinking she is overpaid. And that she doesn't deserve to be compensated for her time. I know if I wasn't get paid for ten to twenty hours every single week, there would be hell to pay!!!
YOU PEOPLE MUST BE KIDDING ME!!!!
The most important job in society is not that of a teacher, a parent of the child is. If your wife is so discontented with her job, she has a right to quit and I am sure she will be replaced with very little trouble. Join the world of salaried employees who for the most part work 60 to 80 hour weeks, without all the vacation time.
The question to ask, where is the money going to come from to pay this and for everything else that government is proposing. By the way, how many of you get a special discount on heating oil? How many knew teachers do.
Regardless of everyone's personal feelings about this issue, I think it's important to clarify something. Working to the rule is a step away from striking. The point of working to the rule is to bring community awareness to the issue. Parents will need to arrange before/after school care, activities will get canceled, etc. If you don't want your kid's teacher working to the rule, or striking, call up the school board. Demand action on the contract. Let them know that you don't want things to spiral down hill. Demand to know when the Board and the Union are going to sit down again to sort this out. Be a positive example of local civic involvement to your kids - call the Board and talk!
$56,000 average salary, 180 work days per year equals $311 per day. Not bad money as I see it.
So in other words SpeakUp, teachers are just a bunch of baby sitters.
My Father was a teacher and coach. I saw him put in many hours after school and at home. I also got to be with him most every summer as he had time off except the few when he was getting his advanced degrees and required certificates. Work until the job is done and take time off when available, this is the balance of a professional. A professional is not restricted by the 40 hours a week but average that work out over time.
Teachers have let their profession slip to the ranks of a job. Professionals are usually a self-policing, are not represented under collective bargaining and not defined by an hourly rate. When you let the union in and argue about hours per week without looking at the longer time-frame, you lose the respect commensurate with a profession.
If teachers want to be a profession then they must reestablish the professional aspects of their vocation.
"From the net:
"The average weekly wage in Fairbanks, AK is $842, which translates to $43,784 annually. Private Sector wages are $785 per week or roughly $40,820 per year, on average. State Government wages are $984 per week or $51,168 per year. Local Government wages are $701 per week or $36,452 per year. Federal Government wages are $1,220 per week or $63,440 per year. "
From http://www.eed.state.ak.us/FAQ.html
What is the average teacher salary in Alaska?
In 2007-2008, the average teacher salary in Alaska was about $56,757.95. The Statistics and Reports section on this website list additional information about teachers in Alaska.
From the above information, teachers, on average, make more than both the public and private sector averages...So - what do you require to be happy and 'feel' better?"
Teaching requires at least a bachelor's degree, which costs a person time and money to earn. Do your other figures include only professions requiring a degree? If not, it is not a valid comparison. How do teachers compare with other degreed professions? I would guess right around or below average, since the other categories you list are going to include jobs that don't require any degree at all and in turn pay a lower hourly rate.
"Join the world of salaried employees who for the most part work 60 to 80 hour weeks, without all the vacation time."
I am not a teacher. I am contracted for 40 hours per week. We have three or four busy times each year during which I consistently work more than those 40 hours, usually for 2 weeks or so. I have random days here and there where I work beyond my 8 hours, maybe 2 or 3 times per month.
I am the child of two teachers and the spouse of a teacher, and teachers work overtime ALL the time. They are only contracted for 35 hours per week. They are allotted at best 2 hours per day to all the extra things required of a teacher, which have been spelled out numerous times here in these comments, but I'll do it again -- meeting with parents, providing assistance to students, keeping up with paperwork, lesson planning, grading papers, compiling and entering grades, writing comments on report cards (this one is a DOOZY for most elementary teachers, who want to share specific, personal, and individualized information on each and every report card), updating bulletin boards (again, a requirement particularly for elementary teachers who often have a calendar that is an integral part of their daily routine), making copies, attending special ed meetings, attending staff meetings, attending grade-level meetings, and more.
In addition, despite the fact that people see teaching as "easy" or "flexible" because of the "shorter days" and "summers off," teachers have little to no flexibility in their days. If our children need a parent during the day, they know not to even call their teaching parent, who cannot just drop everything and leave. Luckily, on most days I can if absolutely necessary. Teachers often work sick, because the day-to-day routine of a classroom is important to the kids and subs often can't get any real teaching done.
Like every profession there are bad teachers who don't really care, who put in the minimum amount of time and work. But among the teachers I've known, and I've known many in my lifetime, most are dedicated and caring and put in lots of extra time, effort, and their own money. And really, do we want less when it comes to educating our children?
I support both sides of this argument. Bottom line is our children will suffer. It seems that we all have our "whining spells", and as a community, we ridicule those groups at these times. We've all worked more than our share, been paid less then we deserve. Decent day's pay for a decent day's work. That should be the goal that we strive for. Yes, I agree, to have the summer off, especially in our great State, is not a bad deal. Most of us have to use our vacation time, our paid leave. Look at what they make for what they work, not so bad after all. I do however that anyone, under salary, should be receive compensation. Also, when we quote things from the internet, such as the average yearly wage on groups of employees, remember, these statistics are manipulated, as are all stats, to exploit what the author wants to express. Remember the benefits that some of these groups receive, some are given, while other groups have to pay a hefty price. Wether it's a benefits package for free child care or discounted fuel.
Ak Guy and diablo;
You guys should actually, literally go to school in your son or daughter's school and pay attention
to what goes on in their lives. Teachers do care and they have a fair and equal say in their profession.
Just because some of you think kids need be seen and not heard, does not mean you treat teachers
the same way. They're the ones who influence your children and give them dreams and goals.
Appreciate what you have now and think before you criticize, your/our children will hopefully be
in better positions than you and I/we are in right now. Teachers deserve a decent raise, your kids
deserve more than your negativity.
here is a new idea pay the teachers what they deserve. if it goes over budget fix it by firing every other secretary or as they call them no administrative assistant. then look around if you have a principal do we really need a high paid vice principal, i say no if the principal is ill or incipaticated use a teacher to sign the paperworkor make the call. we have too many mid level paper pushers who do nothing to contribuate to the well fare of our children. also look in the school district offices and see how much deadwood is their because of politcal correctness or the good old boy network.i bet their is a lot of deadwood in the education offices that can be weeded out before you totally wreck the system by forcing teachers to go on strike. if a strike occurs it rests on the head of the top administrator
"I agree, to have the summer off, especially in our great State, is not a bad deal. Most of us have to use our vacation time, our paid leave."
Two points: One is that most teachers everywhere have the summer "off," so it's not like this is an unusual perk our teachers are asking for.
Second is that teachers are NOT paid for the summer months. Some teachers elect to have their paychecks spread out over the course of the year, but they are not being paid for any time during the summer. Nor do they get paid for days off during holidays. The two-week break in Dec/Jan is unpaid time except for the negotiated holidays, usually 3 or 4 days in that two-week span. Ditto Spring Break -- not paid time. As salaried employees, their pay is spread out and they don't see a loss of paycheck during those times, but teachers are not paid for those days.
Here's a novel idea. Instead of moving forward on the raise reqests. Why don't you attempt to get your weekly contract hours increased to fall more in line with the hours you actually work. That would seem more than fair to me.
Give me a break. Teachers BUST BUTT! They work nights, sundays, they call parents after work. My wife is a teacher and I basically do not see her from Aug 15 thru May 15. They all have at least 4 year degrees and many have 6 to 8 year degrees. 10 years of student loans. Every year they are required to take more classes and submit to more review by a public and federal government that has no clue what is being asked of teachers. 20 to 30% of teachers nation wide quit in their first 3 years. Teachers are not asking for anything unreasonable. Why doesn't someone on this thread ask what the superintendent is making per year? Teachers are asking for RESPECT. The "Tax Payers" do have a small stake in this as most have children. The state vis-a-vis the oil companies provide much of the districts revenue. As I understand it when OIL was $14 a barrel the teachers accepted 1% raises, Now when OIL was as high as $140 per barrel they are asking for 4.5% raise in an inflationary regime. If that seems unreasonable to anyone then they should get their heads examined.
4.5% every year?? This year I got 2% and my husband was CUT $1 per hour. In that light, 4.5% is extravagent.
Is anyone else in the private sector or otherwise being offered step increases followed by a 3% raise? PLUS ..... new teachers starting salaries increase nearly $3,000 annually from where they are now so it increases earning potential as they step increase according to Ms. Pierce from the article.
Now let's examine the annual salaries which are competitive with the private sector, etc. Has anyone else realized that this annual salary is based on a 9 month work year compared to the 12 month work year? In many cases, the teacher's salaries are higher on an annual basis! Teachers may have to continue their education during some summer months to stay accredited but come on! 9 months earning more money, in most cases - better health care and a better retirement plan than most employers offer.
Other posts, News Miner articles and letters to the editor have mentioned health care issues regarding the teacher's contract. Do all of you educators believe that rising health costs are exclusive to your profession? Heck no ..... we all are faced with the same rising costs regarding healthcare. How is this the fault of the FNSB School District?
I know that in the private sector I'm not likely to be getting a 3% raise this year as all employers are controlling operating costs due to the increased fixed expenses of business operation!
Inchworm - nice comparison about degreed professions (represented by a self-serving union). I think you hit it right on the head but mis-spelled something. I think that it has turned into a "greed profession" from everything that I've read in this paper and in these posts.
Say all you want about work to rule. I can't believe we're arguing about a 4.5 annual raise. These are the people that educate our children. Send whomever you want to put out my house fire, I want a Genius teaching my child. Sign on for the 4.5 percent raise and consider it an investment in your children and future.
dukit22
because you get an inadequate raise you think that no one else should get respect? Try teaching for a few years and see if you really think 4.5% is unreasonable. After you do, then check back.
$311 per day (average) still sounds like enough money to be satisfied.
Old_Moe
"Is anyone else in the private sector or otherwise being offered step increases followed by a 3% raise?"
actually yes. MANY private sector employees who have 5 years or more of post secondary education and who train many many additional hours each year DO GET raises and bonuses of 5-20% most years. Check the pay of Doctors, Lawyers, Dentists, chiropractors, therapists, etc. Check the annual salary of most well-trained professionals and you will see that teachers lag WAY behind. Check The Annual pay for union plumbers or electricians. The only thing I would judge if I was outside looking in is that folks who complain about 4.5% raises seem to value the transport of human waste more than the education of societies' children. Good luck.
Be more affective than this, go to the next school board meeting, all of you.
they just announced the Permanent Fund lost $5 billion dollars. Again, where are you people getting the money for all this. Wouldn't be surprised if the State employee retirement fund has lost a bundle in it's stocks. Don't worry, they'll just take what is left in the PFD and increase taxes and add new taxes. Problem is how many will be left to support an inflated government based economy, when the government does have the money to do so. teachers answer the question, who do you expect to pay for this? If teachers are so smart they should understand the word depression.
I SUPPORT THE TEACHERS. PAY THEM MORE, THEY ARE WORTH IT!
GDogg
I dont know if that is true or not, for the sake of discussion, Ill assume that you are correct
Because they have the money this year, will they have money next year, 5 years from now, 10 years from now?
One thing I do think though is that, FNSBSD administration should get the same rate of raises as the teachers. In this together suffer together or prosper together. This is not an attack on teachers, it is only an observation that everyone should be treated the same.
Why don't you all get this upset over what our enlisted soldiers who are fighting in Iraq are being paid? They are making much less on average than what the teachers are making. I assure you they are working a heck of a lot more days and hours, and they don't get to eat dinner with their family every night or sleep in their own bed, and, OH YEH, they're being shot at! I don't see or hear any of them complaining about their pay, and they make much less than teachers. They chose that career and knew they wouldn't get rich going in. So did teachers. Live with it.
You may have money this year, the problem is do you have it for the next ten?
I don't think the community has a problem paying for good teachers. There are many that have their 4 year degree in something that has nothing to do with what they teach. When you research the median salaries for Alaskan teachers we are in the top 10 out of 50, yet when you research the standings of our students they are in the bottom 10. The starting salary may be around 38k but then there are the benefits, which health insurance alone could add another 5-10k to the top of that. Not too shabby out of the box. I appreciate the job that the teachers do, but I also put in a long week yet still get to spend an hour or so helping with homework that should of been done in a proper learning environment.
Governor Palin has forward funded education for three years.
She did this when she was looking at the huge budget surplus.
The picture looks less rosy right now. However, money is their
and the argument of most teachers is that the COL and CPI are climbing so
quickly that we hope that we can get paid the money that was appropriated by our state and borough governments.
I would like to extend thanks to our effective local legislators and assembly for all of their support and wisdom.
Sincerely,
Thomas
The reality is, how long can we afford to continue to pay contracts, when you know the minute the contract ends and they do not get what they want because the community doesn't have it, they will call strike or threaten a law suit. How many teachers are willing to sign a contract each time that includes, should the economy change and money becomes short we will take a pay cut? I bet none of you are.
Forgot one thing, the DOW dropped below 9000 today another 700 point drop. Can we spell depression?
Everyone deserves to get paid for their hours worked...public or private employees. The work rule enforcement seems reasonable...if we as a community will not appreciate all the EXTRA hard work and effort they give us daily, then they will only give us what is required. Reasonable and hopefully effective.
4.5% is a bargain. If we had to pay them for actual hours worked (another option) the expense would be huge. If 4.5% ($2,200.00 per year for mid level teachers?) keeps them happy and putting forth the extraordinary effort, then that is a deal for taxpayers.
Try the alternative, conservatively $35 per hour X 20 extra hours a week X 40 weeks a year....$28,0000 per employee. This is rough numbers at a straight time wage....1.5X that for overtime.
And AK guy....you have no credibility here with me. All you do is attack public employees. Try comenting with facts instead of unfounded, unsubstatiated opinions.
The problem is that Alaska's entire economy has been falsely inflated by the government sector. Half the workers in Alaka would be making 50% as much doing the same job in the lower 48.
What do you think Alaska's top industry is?
If you guessed government service you are correct.
All jobs in the construction, mining, fishing, truck and air tranportation combined employ less people than the government sector. 23% of all Alaskan workers get their paycheck from the government. If we had to pay with taxes instead of oil revenue, each Alaskan worker would be on the line for $30,000. With the average salary only $39,000 that would leave $9,000 a year to pay for everything else.
http://labor.alaska.gov/research/trends/...
been in this "borough" more than sixty years and don't kid yourself that teachers will not go on strike if they don't get what they want. You have no idea what people who are living beyond their means are willing to do to get an extra dime. When in the past haven't they gotten something. teachers are like everyone else, no matter how much they make, they want that extra dime. By the way, the talk now is we are heading for another "Great Depression." They are saying the auto industry will fail next year. Unions are heading for the end of their time with this economy. What will teachers do when the unions go down forever.
From the above:
"What is the average teacher salary in Alaska?
In 2007-2008, the average teacher salary in Alaska was about $56,757.95."
The above figure is AVERAGE for the whole state.
Applying the state AVERAGE to FNSBSD:
Plus an approximate 35% benefit package.
The AVERAGE estimated Fairbanks teacher's cost is $76,623.23
--- for those teachers who have guaranteed job.
It looks like Ford and General Motors are about to go bankrupt. To few buyers, and credit very tight to those who have credit want to buy. Ford traded around $2 and GM in the $4 range. Which is less than what they went for in the 1930's. GM a few years ago was in the $50 range.
Their worker's jobs are in danger, since their work product (car) sales are very poor.
----
You teachers are safe, be thankful for what you have.
The borough assembly does not need to appropriate a dime to the SD.
Because: they are a legislative body.
I support the teachers 100% and I think the school district is appalling! I have 2 kids in elementary school but I will find a way to take care of them, despite the fact that I work full time, if the teachers end up going on strike. Again, I support the teachers fully.
I am so sick of this. Teachers going on strike have been around for years. Even when I was in School over 14 years ago. The children are the ones that suffer not the TEACHERS. If the teachers are not happy with what they make then quit and find a different job that gives you the money that you desire.
I don't care what you get paid you took the job to teach the children and I am dealing with a teacher who should not be. You don't just give the kids work without explaining how to do it and tell them to just do it when they ask how it is to be done.
So teachers...word of advice...stop saying the children learning is important when all your thinking about is yourself and money. that does not put the childrens learning at the best interest.
armywife_92;
If it weren't for teachers, we wouldn't be able to read or write. It's obvious you don't care, other
people who are parents/teachers do care. Howelse would you recommend that teachers ask for
a raise? Know of better way?
Gil -
When you quote the great SAT and ACT scores in 2007 - also factor in the amount of HS dropouts and all who didn't take the test - then you will get a truer picture I think...
Get rid of the hourly rate and pay them a salary of the same amount...them most of the whining about hours worked will have to go away....
seems that preachers and liquor stores make a lot of money in hard times and depressions.
"So teachers...word of advice...stop saying the children learning is important when all your thinking about is yourself and money. that does not put the childrens learning at the best interest."
And what are the teachers doing each day? Going to work, teaching your children. Still, for the most part, putting in the extra hours (my spouse is). Yes, attending union meetings once a week or so after working hours. I have yet to see any one in the teacher's union call for a strike. My spouse's thoughts are not on salary all day long, they are on running that classroom and making sure the kids are learning and safe and relatively happy. And I'm sure that's true for the majority of the teachers out there.
And as for quitting, you think you're having issues now? If all the GOOD teachers quit because they are worth more money (and they are), more kids would have to suffer through the bad teachers that would be put in their place.
Things like this never happened before our new superintendent came from Outside to take over here. The contracts seemed to be settled fairly amicably. In my 15 years in Fairbanks, I can't remember ever reading in the paper that there had been a contract dispute like this. Another commenter noted, "I can't remember a time when they even got as close as now to striking. I can't even remember a time when they started a new year without a contract." It's my understanding that when the last superintendent left, so did many of the top people who worked over on 5th Avenue. The fact that the big change this round of negotiations is the new administration leads me to conclude that the new administration’s approach has forced our teachers to this point. It's sad. One commenter mentioned, "If a strike occurs it rests on the head of the top administrator." I agree with that wholeheartedly in this case. Our new administration doesn't seem to be serving our community.
This is my first year teaching in the district. I came here from Georgia and before I moved I heard stories about how great the schools are and that the pay was great. Truth be told, I am making about $1K less a year and the cost of living is much higher. I am not living beyond my means as one person wrote above, as an educated person it just doesn't seem right to spend more than I make. I would like to travel home for the holidays to see my family but I will not be able to as I will be registering for a college class to keep my certification current and spending more money on educational resources for my students.
I don't sit around all day thinking about an imminent strike. I am teaching your children and trying to keep them actively engaged in the learning process. Have any of the negative visitors to this site tried to control a class of twenty-five, twelve-year-olds? Probably not.
I love what I do. It is a challenge but I knew what I was getting myself into when I began my degree. I did not realize however how disrespected teachers were. Parents and school boards treat us like we can’t be trusted, I have been called a racist, sexually harassed and physically threatened. FNSBSD teachers are just asking for fair compensation not oodles of cash, I don’t see anyone bashing professional football or baseball players who make millions of dollars each year just for playing a game!
I am a teacher and quite frankly even more than the district refusing to see to it that we have a fair and equitable contract, I am disgusted by the public view of teachers in this area. I am not sure why people are so anti-teacher/education in Fairbanks but let me tell you I am at my wits end. I feel abused less by the district and more by the general public. It is a sad situation and yes I know many of you will say "don't let the door hit you on the way out" It really is a shame but what I read on this blog makes it more and more difficult to feel passionate about my job.
$311 per day, for (generally) safe, clean, indoor work. I'm not seeing the problem...
To all of the teachers that have posted here (and all the rest) --
Please, please, realize that there is a large group of us that DO appreciate what you are doing!
THANK YOU!!!
We are fully behind your efforts. We feel that you should be paid equitably for your job, which, by many standards, is one of the MOST IMPORTANT jobs in the country.
So, thanks to you.
And, don't listen to these others - I'd bet a bunch of them don't even have kids in the schools! (And, people, being basically greedy, will tend to NOT want to give money if they don't see a direct benefit to themselves. Many people are far to short sighted to see that my children will affect their children and grandchildren. They only see "hey - I don't use that service, why the hell should I pay for it?" But, of course, they can't say, "I'm greedy, don't pay the teachers more". So, instead they say, "those teachers are doing a lousy job, don't pay them more.")
blazer - I don't understand your post about $311 per day. I looked back in this blog and I just don't see where you are obtaining that number.
Thank you newsreader and all of the others who have posted here for the encouraging words and support. I appreciate knowing that there are community members standing behind us as we work through this process. I think that most of us just want this process, that has been going on since last October, to be over and completed in a fair and respectful manner.
littlepuffin, average teacher salary $56K divided by 180 work days.
blazer, a starting teacher in the school district makes $28.69 an hour. If you times that by 7 you get $210.83. Your figure is for a teacher who has been in the district for several years and either has a Master's Degree or has accumulated 36 hours of post-graduate work.
Lets take a reality check here. Inflation, according to the Consumer Price Index, was 5.4% for the month of August. Teachers are looking for a 4.5% raise. So even with a raise the teachers' salary will buy less than it did one year ago. 4.5% is about keeping up with inflation, not a raise. By the way you have already paid for this raise, the district has the money.
Our school district has some awesome teachers. I apologize if I forget to mention some of these wonderful teachers who volunteer their personal hours to see students succeed in an academic environment. At North Pole High School there is Pat Behner who takes her 11th and 12th grade AP students to new heights in understanding U.S. History and the Constitution. Pat was recognized as an outstanding U.S. History teacher in the State of Alaska. Jerry Million is an automotive teacher at North Pole HIgh School who has taken students to national levels for competition. He is available to students who have questions about future career plans. We have in this school district dedicated teachers who go above and beyond to ensure our students are qualified and ready for college or whatever career plan they choose. Please support all teachers.
Firstly, as I teacher I very much appreciate the many people who have posted here in support of teachers. On the whole I have a had a very positive experience in Fairbanks when it comes to the community and many, many parents have been nothing but supportive of my efforts to work with their children.
So the people who I would like to respond to are those in the community who seem to have a strangely vitriolic response to this whole situation.
To address the article itself: although "work to rule" technically means doing nothing but what one is contracted to do, none of the teachers I know are actually doing that at this point. Some (like at my school) are choosing to meet outside together and walk in at 7:15, the beginning of the duty day. Quite a few of those have already been inside working and come out to participate in that, then go back to work. We may escalate to more work to rule type action, but are waiting to see what happens in the next few weeks.
Other than that, what I have heard from teachers in other schools doing "work to rule" is that it is to draw attention to the situation and to show the district how serious we are (as in, the strike possibility is not a bluff, in the hopes of avoiding it). No teacher I know actually wants to harm their students' education, and most are too conscientious to just not do the work (plus, what a nightmare for US not having papers graded or having lessons prepared). So, "work to rule" as I understand it to be practiced at the moment means shutting the door during lunch and being unavailable to parents before and after the duty day. There is bound to be some inconvenience for people, but teachers are STILL working outside the duty day while trying to make a point.
The goal here is to indicate to the district that their dealings with us thus far have been insulting and won't be accepted...in the hopes that they will bargain more effectively with the union in the near future so that further actions can be avoided.
I no longer have a child in the FNSBSD, but education benefits us all. Teachers are the mechanism for that benefit.
However, unionization of a group which can then lobby, and financially support, those elected officials who will benefit them most is a conflict of interest. And make no mistake unions do endorse locally elected officials. Currently it does seem that those elected officials (the school board) are standing their ground. Unions often defend the status quo, except for compensation, regardless of the level of quality. (OK, I understand safety issues, and other benefits of unions, in some trades. I just never saw educators as tradespeople.)
A good teacher is worth more than we could ever pay, and a poor teacher is not worth a plugged nickel, or less. Unions make them all equal, based on time served. Therein lies the rub. There seems to be no equitable way to quantify what good teachers accomplish, over those who just fiddled away their college years and decided a teaching certificate was the way out, to graduate, and get a job. In fact, it seems the FEA/NEA will go out of their ways to make sure there is no way to tell good teachers from bad. Quantifying a teacher's abilities is the last thing they want. The financial implications to the union are just to profound.
But unionizing of public employees is another issue.
Union or not, teachers deserve a fair wage. I am not a judge of what "a fair wage" is for teachers. Given what has happened to the economy in the past few weeks I suspect the most of us are NOT getting raises any time soon.
Having had my rant, there must be a mechanism, a process, whereby we can determine -- by comparative hours:compensation, or effort:production, or compensation:quality of result -- what to pay. This would, in turn, retain teachers, reduce the acrimony, and put an end to professional public employees begging for money at school board meetings, in Letters to the Editor, and in these blogs. You do not see, for instance, DOT heavy equipment operators, or AFDG technicians, or DNR Park Rangers making the same kinds of emotional appeals for compensation. Why? The teachers' union has uniquely emotional leverage, our children.
I know teaching is hard work in the classroom, with numerous extracurricular, voluntary, obligations which benefit parents and students immeasurably outside the classroom. Thank you, all good teachers! If being a classroom teacher was easy, anybody could do it.
While I revile teachers' unions, I support a fair wage for good teachers. Now, there has GOT to be a system whereby we can legitimately identify what a fair wage is, and solve this problem so these people do not have to panhandle the public for better compensation.
I hope you all don't mind my wordiness, but I would like to address a few things above:
Average Wage: Average wage figures are just that...the average. Many teachers are making less and ALL newer teachers are making less. How many teachers will be retiring over the next few years? You'll need to replace them and the current beginning salaries are not that attractive when you consider the cost of living (5.4% inflation nation-wide...I think we can all agree much higher in Fairbanks!).
Graduation Rate: A people have mentioned numerous times, remember that "drop out" applies to people who move away from Fairbanks back to villages, students whose parents are in the military so they leave before graduation here, etc. Those figures from last year were highly misleading and widely debunked.
Where the money comes from: The money has already been budgeted and given to the district...it's going to be spent by the school district. If they don't spend it on teachers, what do you want them to allocate it to?
Summer Vacation: It is just true that summers off is one of the benefits of teaching. Other jobs have other perks. There is a downside to teacher vacations, though...you have to take them when the school schedule gives them to you. If you want to leave during the winter months, someone gets married or has a baby, you can't get away for longer than a weekend. It is illegal to use sick days if you're not sick. You get three unpaid "professional leave" days per year. Vacations are not at all flexible. I'm not complaining at all...I'm just saying it's not a perfect situation. And I really do spend portions of my summer doing work related things. Like last summer spending $1000 to take grad level classes to keep my license up to date.
When I compare my financial situation with friends who graduated in other areas, working all over the country now, I am definitely behind. It is absolutely true that I can leave and change professions...and I probably will at some point because the retirement package now given in this district is pitiful. I can live better teaching in other states and I can get a job in a different profession if necessary. The days when the work force sticks with one job their entire lives are over and I think Fairbanks will regret it if they don't invest in making this district attractive to teachers.
It's a depression: I'm well aware of the economy. Does that mean that I shouldn't try and keep my own head above water? Particularly when the money is allocated -- taxpayers are not getting it back -- and the district will spend it elsewhere?
FreeDarfur: I am most certainly not living beyond my means. Unless you mean buying food and gas, both of which have become decidedly more expensive.
armywife_92: I think you are having a bad experience with one teacher right now and it is coloring your point of view. What is wrong with thinking about the well-being of my own family, as well as yours?
Re working only 7 hours.
On the sunny side of the street:
I don't expect anyone to work for free since this is not a socialist country, yet.
I, for one, only expect you to do your job in the time alloted.
On the dark side of reality,
[union]"wants a contract with a 4.5 percent raise for all teachers for every year in the contract",
An example 3 years
4.5% first year on 100,000 + 4,500= 104,500
4.5% second year on 104,500 +4,700=109,200
4.5% third year on 109,200 + 4,914 =114,114
Looks 4.5% compounded 3 times is a hair over 14%
Does anyone know of an employer around here willing to give a 14% wage increase over the next 3 years? McDonald's? Wal-Mart? Safeway? Fred's
How about the LA SD?
I can't think of any! Considering the current economic rout in progress.
And what about a strike! At 2 months or less months you loose more than you gain at 14%.
You are, also, stuck with late fees and interest on your debts! Boy that can eats up a strike check up in a hurry. Ouch.
I don't want to cause a case of early on set SAD with winter coming. I what to help you all think positive improve your attitudes!
You got to think positive!
Waking a picket line at -50 will help you loose weight, improve your cardiac vascular functions and give your negative crybaby attitudes a much needed adjustment.
1AkFox:
"I, for one, only expect you to do your job in the time alloted."
So you are fine with federal regulations regarding special education not being met because there just isn't time for the teachers to meet with the parents and each other? You're fine with teachers not having a lesson plan because the teacher did not have time to plan for a whole week? Lots of silent reading and busy-work must be okay with you.
It is very interesting to me that non-teaching employees of the district are allotted an 8 hour work day. And paid for those hours. Go look at the district's job openings on their web page.
I've seen a number of post complaining about the union. Does anyone even realize that union members ARE the union? Unions started as a means for employees to protect themselves from the excesses of the employer.
I've worked in a right-to-work state, and I've worked in places where unions are legal. If I have the choice, I will NEVER work in a right-to-work state again. Employees are at the mercy of their employers' whims and have no recourse when there's little/no salary increase with heavier workloads.
Example: the last district I worked for was in a right-to-work state. The principal at my school decided it would be fantastic to have staff meetings every Friday for an hour before school, demanded that teachers attend every school activity that occurred before or after school hours (and there was an activity AT LEAST once a month), and if you didn't like it you could be put on a "plan of improvement" for not playing by her rules. All this on top of what is considered usual and customary for a teacher's workload.
And for those of you who say, "Welcome to my world - I'm not union": shame on you for not defending your own rights as a worker! You, like EVERYONE in Alaska, have a right to organize a labor union to protect yourself. Alaskans pride themselves on their independence, but there's nothing independent about being a door mat to an employer who wants to keep all the power in their own hands.
Teachers have unionized to protect their rights and provide an avenue for grievances. A school board with complete authority has free reign do as they please, regardless of whose rights they trample and no grievance process.
FYI - not all professionals are non-union.
-UAF full-time professors must have at least a masters degree or higher, and ALL are union.
-Nurses (bless them all) are professionals and belong to a union.
-And, oh by the way, there ARE doctor and dentist unions...who, last I heard, are professionals, too!
This proud union member stands in solidarity with the teachers. If the teachers strike, Fairbanks can expect many other union members to stand alongside the teachers. Truckers. Professors. Electricians. Welders. HVAC guys. Nurses. But perhaps there is a way to avoid a strike. What if all of the other union members in Fairbanks work to rule in solidarity with the teachers? If all the union members in Fairbanks worked to rule for just a few days, surely the school district would decide to negotiate that teensy little raise for our teachers!
Get rid of your union -
save $919.00/year....
Thats the start of a nice raise....trim a little fat - like one or more of the assistant principles at the various high schools -
raise is almost there...
Show us that you are trimming the fat and I will support you fully - - but I went to a High School that had approximately the same amount of students as Lathrop and we only had 1 principle and one assistant...somehow we got by without 3 and 1 like Lathrop has
Inch worm's question.
"I, for one, only expect you to do your job in the time alloted."
Reply: Yes.
---------------------
Improved syntax:
"I, for one, only expect you to do the duties in your job description* in the 7 hour time alloted.
Your are terminated effective immediately.
Reason for termination: incompetence.
Your lack of required organizational skills demonstrates incompetence."*
*McDonald's fires workers for the same reason.
Shola....I know that teachers, behind the parents are a very important part of the childrens education system. I have no problem with the teachers wanting more money. What I do have a problem with is how teachers say that they have the kids education at heart but yet are willing to go on strike because they do not get more money. That to me is not having the childrens education a priorty. I have 2 children in the school district who are doing very well, plus I am a full time college student so yes I am for education but not at my childrens expense. If a strike does happen then children have to make up for that time in the summer. How is that fair to them as well as us parents? All I am saying is I am tired of some teachers saying they are looking out for the kids when they truly are not. If they do not get the extra money then find another job and not punish the children. It's bad enough most kids don't want to be in school anyways.
My point about the bad teacher is that you don't just tell kids to do work that you provide without teaching them how to do it. It is their job to teach the children how to do it, so in that case he/she does not deserve the extra money and should not be teaching.
clipped from above..
"I know teaching is hard work in the classroom, with numerous extracurricular, voluntary, obligations which benefit parents and students immeasurably outside the classroom."
All I expect of you teachers is to do your job in the in the allocated 7 hours.
Essentially "do your job" means transferring the board approved curriculum's knowledge to your students.
The other stuff mentioned is 100% voluntary.
I do not expect it.
I am sure that McDonalds doesnt require employees to work off the clock, in fact, I believe, that an employee being asked to work off the clock, is illegal. Which makes this matter a legal one, rather than an ethical one. Although I think, there seems to be a certain amount of ethics involved, when openly acknowledged ,that teachers work "off the clock" arent being compensated. COMPENSATE THEM!
We contentiously hear "we support the teachers"
I propose this social science experiment:
You believe your teacher needs a raise, ok?
How about supporting your teacher with your last PFD, and of each of your children's checks.
Best of all, convince your friends to give their pfd checks!
About 5 checks are need to cover their wanted 14% raise!
You should call IRS and make sure your gifts of love are tax free to the recipient!
Also, you might be able to claim it as some kind of charitable deduction!!!!
1AkFox: "The other stuff mentioned is 100% voluntary"
Um, not it is not. Try being a teacher and not showing up for a federally-mandated meeting about a special eduation student. Try being a teacher and standing in front of your classroom on Thursday morning because you just didn't have time to plan and prep for a whole week and now you're out of plans for this week. Try being a teacher and telling a parent no, you can't talk to them about their child's progress because it is 3:30 and you have to go home, regardless of the parents' schedule or the severity of the child's needs. A high school English teacher has to have students write in order to assess them. Find me a teacher who can grade 100+ papers MEANINGFULLY during one prep period a day, a period during which they are interrupted by students, other staff, parents, etc. These things are NOT voluntary.
Yes, having a monthly calendar bulletin board is "voluntary," but it is actually included in some math curriculums. When does that get changed out each month? Not during student time. Yes, having ENGAGING activities for kids to do is "voluntary," but if a teacher doesn't do so, they are criticized beyond what you're reading here for being "boring" and "ineffective."
Maybe teachers should be negotiating for a longer paid day. Which in effect leads to a raise anyway.
Yes, pay the teachers out of our own pockets, then when our kids are all on the honor roll (possibly by their own merit) You cry babies can say we "paid the teachers off" What a grand idea. Next, Please!
armywife...
So if the teachers back off, take what the school board gives them and shut up, guess what happens next? The next generation of teachers sees that the older generation has set the standard that we shut up and take what we're given. No "complaining", no negative press.
But quality professionals go where the money is.
Do you really think quality professionals will put up with that kind of work ethic? The net result will be less and less qualified teachers because the top notch ones will go where they are compensated better. With our higher cost of living and harsh climate, MANY people (not just teachers) think twice before saying yes to a job here unless there's a substantial carrot (translate: more money) to entice them to put up with the unpleasant aspects of life in Alaska.
I worked in a right-to-work state several years ago. No unions, no negotiations, no letters to the editor. But the best, most highly qualified teachers were....you guessed it - in the highest paying school districts. The lower paying school districts got the less experienced, less educated, less talented teachers.
Does that sound like a school district to which you'd like to send your kids for an education? Not me. I want the best, and for that you have to pay more than the average.
A strike is not an indicator that we don't care. It's because we want the best for our community's kids that we use whatever means necessary to get the School Board's attention. We've already tried negotiations the easy way, we've been through mediation - TWICE - and now we are waiting for arbitration. If arbitration fails, too, then we will seek another avenue (and it may not be a strike, it could be something else) to get the district's attention.
Teachers care enough about "our" kids to fight for what will give them the greatest advantage possible.
Gil
the quote is from the news paper story.
[union]"wants a contract with a 4.5 percent raise for all teachers for EVERY year in the contract".
4.5% compounded 3 times is a hair over 14% one time.
Your wages must be cut to 90% parity with the private school systems wage scale.
Because in the real labor market you are not worth one single cent more!
I don't care what your EGO thinks your worth, how much your dog loves you, the phase of the moon, or how many legislators you union has put into office.!
So ask those who care about your pay to donate.
Those who will give you some money -- think you are worth it; those who decline -- don't think you are worth it!
~~~~~~~~~~~
Inchworn----
"I, for one, only expect you to do the duties in your job description* in the 7 hour time alloted.
Your are terminated effective immediately.
Reason for termination: incompetence.
Your lack of required organizational skills demonstrates incompetence."*
*McDonald's fires workers for the same reason.
------------------------------------
Anyone who works for "hire" is expected to do the work (flip burgers, teach class, overhaul the engine) for which they are paid in the alloted time.
Organization requires the mental ability. Those who do not have the ability are fired and replaced or demoted.
Many become self employed and go on to live happy successful lives. Others may need their medication adjusted. Some even come to Alaska to live in a school buss at -50 and exit the gene pool.
[... snip ...]
"Teachers care enough about "our" kids to fight for what will give them the greatest advantage possible."
What a bunch of Bull!!! You "care"! The one and only thing YOU CARE about is filling you pocket with as much public money as possible.
The cops ask a bank robber why he robbed banks. He replied: that is where the money is located!
You are up here for theeee --- money! Just like the rest of the boomers who come to Fairbanks.
I am curious! Do you seriously believe anyone on this planet believes you?
My advice: got get a real job and stop your child exploitation campaign.
Have some self respect!
Show us Fairbanks folks you are a decent human being and fit to live is IN this Great State.
---------- AMEN --------
Ok! The teachers are saying that they need more money to better educate the children. First off I buy all my children's supplies, I buy the hand sanitizer for the classroom, I buy the kleenex for the classroom and half the time when the student ask for such said items that the parents pay for they are told no. So I stopped buying those said items and bought trail size for my children to carry and use for themselves.
Second off, most of the teachers make more then my husband who is in iraq fighting for your rights and protection. You do not see military members campaigning and threating not to protect this country til they get more money. We too have to suffer the inflation that comes from living here in Alaska or anywhere for that matter.
Third, I never once said education was not important. However, what your telling me is that teachers will only better educate the children if they are provided additional income, which by the way will not be used for the children but for you to maintain your household. If teachers are as decent as they claim to be they would thrive to do their best regardless of their pay. So once again I have proven my point that teachers greed for more money is above the childrens education.
armywife_92
Please pass along my sincerest thanks to your husband for his service! I also thank for your support on the "home front"! All wars are fought on two fronts -- the battle field and at home!
If it were not your sacrifices the Al-Quada supporters working in the FNSBSD would suffer the "historic and customary" treatment afforded traitors in time of war.
The freedoms you defend make it possible for teachers to work a half time indoor winter job at an annual wage between 2 and 3 times the average private school system wages.
The last time I saw a figure the FNSBSD's budget was $150 million and it had 1,900 "workers?" consuming 83% of the budget --about $125 million.
The average FNSBSD cost for each of the 1,900 "workers?" is $65,789
[Now we know WHY ONLY some uinon members live BETTER than others]
The one of the reasons for this figure: YOU are providing free supplies!!!!
Quoted from your prior post:
"First off I buy all my children's supplies, I buy the hand sanitizer for the classroom, I buy the kleenex for the classroom and half the time when the student ask for such said items that the parents pay for they are told no."
Other parents suffer the same outrageous "fees" etc for things which should be free so -- parasites from Harvard can live off us taxpayers! Telling US their high wages are "for the children".
How many gallons hand sterilizer can be bought for $65,879?
For all of you who think "teachers" are smarter and know more than you because they are "educated at Harvard."
Your home work assignment is: learn the effects of mirror kissing.
~~~~~~~~
"Lehman, AIG Chiefs Should `Man Up,' Stop `Kissing the Mirror'"
(paste as one long -long - url -no spaces)
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=2...
Future lessons in political science of banditry,
"Using your political power to sheer taxpayers with a pen"
"Politics for fun and profit -- block voting"
Class dismissed!
Apparently AKguy isn't familiar with the predominant labor code of the state, nor the many collective bargaining agreements in effect around the state and the country.
Most labor agreements have strict work rules governing the hours and conditions of work. Like them or not, if the work day extends beyond the time alloted, the employee is paid for that time.
Teachers on the other hand, being cast in the "professional" role have been traditionally expected to put in more hours that the work actually takes. Pinheaded administrators cash in on the willingness to give more, without considering the consequences long term.
If you are forced to work more than the agreed upon hours for the agreed upon wages, go to a union.
If you are a teacher, enforce your contract. In a way it seems that your willingness to give more, is now working to your disadvantage to get serious consideration of your current issues.
Get a grip all you non teachers in Fairbanks. If you think teachers get paid too much.
Go on the web and look at many other districts across the nation. There are many places teachers can go and get paid much more. I know many teachers who come to Alaska for only a short time and then figure out they can live somewhere else much cheaper. So Alaska is no longer getting teachers in the numbers it once did. So no teacher are not overpaid!!!!!! I know of three districts off hand who pay more than Fairbanks.
To all the teacher haters on this discussion.
Also teachers have a hard job. They teach kids who do not want to learn and are forced to go to school. Parents who do not care for their kids. They work in places where fights and guns are the norm. They work in drug houses. They see kids abused at homes. They work with national governments that do not understand how to educate. They work with lack of funding for classroom supplies. They work in a town where people think their job is useless. Parents who blame them for everything a kid does. Bills to pay for college classes they have to take to stay certified. So really if you are hating a teacher on this I say go one day in the teachers shoes. You would not last five minutes. It is a hard job.
Give RESPECT!!!
Greed driven contemptuous behavior and using law to extort property tax from families who can't pay for fuel, food, mortgage payments on their homes which have lost their value does a wonderful job helping a teacher's image.
Respect is earned not given.
I don't know if "greed goth before a fall" or not. However, I bet prevarication greases it's skids!
Public school teachers are only worth 90% parity with our local private schools.
I am not sure this discussion is getting anywhere new, but I'll put in my two cents again since as a teacher this particular issue is important to me and I hate to see members of the community so virulently against us.
Armywife_92, although I don't necessarily agree with your position, somewhere up-thread you made two very good points, or at least the two best counter-arguments against union action.
The first is the problems a strike would cause for our students. I think most teachers are profoundly bothered by that possibility. And I would like to remind everyone that a strike is hardly inevitable...I hope a strike is just as unattractive to the district as it is to us. We still have to go through arbitration, hopefully the district will continue to deal with our bargaining team, and we will be able to come to an agreement without ever going on strike.
But to suggest that just because everyone is worried about their financial well-being teachers shouldn't do what they can to take care of their own families in a situation where the value of a our salaries has consistently gone down for quite a number of years, when the money is THERE and available and does not require new taxes is preposterous. Why do we have to be either money-grubbing opportunists or selfless paragons of virtue living only for the good of other people's children? Can't we be somewhere in the middle?
The other point you raised that I think is relevant and has frustrated me as well is that while most teachers are hardworking people who really do provide as good an education as their students are willing to take advantage of, there are some teachers out there who are not that good, whether through lack of skill or dedication. Why should they get automatic raises? Unfortunately it is very difficult to come up with a merit pay situation that would work, but if someone had such a plan and got the government to implement it that would be fine.
But for now we have a public school system, the vast majority of you send your kids there, and the vast majority of those teachers "deserve" a raise just as much as anyone else does in their jobs.
I am an army spouse myself...just because everything isn't right in the military in the compensation department doesn't mean I should figure I deserve nothing in my own profession. Those are two separate issues.
And incidentally, I am making considerably less than this $65,000 figure that keeps getting bandied about. Some teachers -- after many years and lots of education -- have made it to the higher end of the pay scale, but many of us haven't. And those people at the top are getting closer to retirement. The pitiful retirement package and inadequate starting wages here in FNSB are going to cause a problem with attracting new teachers and although many of you seem to think it isn't, the day is coming when this district is going to need those people.
Some comments re prior posts.
1) "The first is the problems a strike would cause for our students. I think most teachers are profoundly bothered by that possibility"
Reply:
1.1) The students will stay at home doing what ever they do while the schools are closed.
1.2) I assure you there is no need to worry.
1.3) Health wise they are far safer at home do to communicable disease spreed.
1.4)I bet the kids last longer playing commuter games at home than teachers can live without a pay check at -50 F.
1.5)I am sure you can hire a picket for $20/hr cash.
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2) "But for now we have a public school system, the vast majority of you send your kids there, and the vast majority of those teachers "deserve" a raise just as much as anyone else does in their jobs."
2.1 "But for now we have a public school system, the vast majority of you send your kids there"
Reply:
2.1 by law kids are required to attend school till they are 16, this why they are in school.
Currently 40% never finish HS.
2.2)I would thank, after being exposed to the education profession for some 7,000 hours. Teachers could "mold" their mind enough or convince more of them to stick it out and graduate.
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3.0 "vast majority of those teachers "deserve" a raise just as much as anyone else does in their jobs"
3.1)In the real working world, "deserve" is replaced with the word "earned". He deserved a xxx? vs He earned xxx?
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4) "I am making considerably less than this $65,000 figure that keeps getting bandied about"
Reply:
4.1 You are making less because you are not worth it.
4.1.1 For the exact reason look in the mirror.
4.2)Some workers at Wal- Mart make more than the Wal-Mart average clerk's wage.
4.3)If you seek EQUAL pay, be assured I support the concept of equal for ALL SD workers--- exactly equal pay.
4.4) The going community scale is about $15 dollars / hour + SS and you pay your own medical. I can live with a $40 million dollar annual school budget.
4.5)I am unimpressed with your lame brained argument.
4.6 Save it for the school board, news miner reporter, and the politicians.
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1AKFox, I do like the way you lay out your argument using numbers, etc. It makes it easy to respond to.
And of course, since you were refuting me, I disagree with you and would like to respond.
1) If you think it doesn't hurt students or the community for teachers to go on strike, why are you so upset about this whole thing? I do understand that it is consistent with your position that public education is worthless, but I believe you are quite wrong about that and I hope it doesn't come to a strike.
2) There are a lot of factors that contribute to a student dropping out and very few are under the control of the teachers. Also, that 40% is a very misleading number as many people have pointed out due to things like military kids moving out of state (and then attending schools elsewhere). I don't see how that is all relevant to the argument anyway, since my point was that whether you like public education or not it's a reality.
3) I'm sure you noticed I put "deserve" in quotations...that is because it is the language most people above have been using. I rather agree with you that the word used should be "earned", although keeping up with cost of living is also part of an employee's consideration. A lot of teachers have in fact earned a raise, I most certainly have. Really this point is all about semantics because in this context "deserve" means have earned and therefore deserve.
4) Since you don't know me or my teaching practices and history, I am not sure why you are so certain I am "not worth it". But I assure you I have in fact EARNED a raise.
And I really don't get the looking in the mirror part. Are you suggesting that my appearance has something to do with whether or not I should be getting a raise?
I am not convinced that the going rate for professional positions in Fairbanks is $15/hr, but don't know a good source to refute it. Still, since you're not giving me a source for that figure I don't think we can count your assertion as authoritative.
I think you are determined not to listen to anyone with an opinion other than yours, and calling someone's argument "lame brained" makes you seem mean-spirited and small-minded.
Support the teachers!!!!
Shola.
Thank your for acknowledging the usefulness of the numbering format.
I see it as evidence of mind capable of looking past the window glass while chained to the seat of a unionist driven short school bus.
Replies to some of your some of your comments.
S1) "If you think it doesn't hurt students or the community for teachers to go on strike, why are you so upset about this whole thing?"
What "hurts" the students is the hostile eduction environment generated by you teachers; because you teachers use them as paws to fill your pockets with extorted dollars from us taxpayers.
"If you don't comply with our demands -- what WE do will hurt-your-children".
I take that as a terrorist's threat.
Does the word "PATCO" wring a bell?
S1.1 "why are you so upset about this whole [strike] thing?"
Reply
Your perception is wishful thinking; in my judgment the "children" are far, far, safer and better off at home playing games, such as Scrabble, than being exposed to your classroom brain washing services.
To bad computer assisted home schooling by Teacher Bot under direct parental supervision better is not available.
S4 "And I really don't get the looking in the mirror part. Are you suggesting that my appearance has something to do with whether or not I should be getting a raise?"
Reply:
You spend your time KISSING your mirror; and it is KISSING you back -- whispering I deserve a raise! (Don't forget to remove your lipstick!!!)
S4.1 "I think you are determined not to listen to anyone with an opinion other than yours, and calling someone's argument "lame brained" makes you seem mean-spirited and small-minded"
Reply:
Because of the user agreement, my typing is profoundly restrained; thus, limiting my choice of adjective usage.
However, I my quest to improve my written communication skills, does "self serving moronic half witted simpleton arguments" sound more PC than "lame brained"?
As, mentioned, the agreement prevents the usage of the English word for sexual activity as an adjective.
In closing, why are you arguing with me on the computer? This is Sunday. You should be in church praying for a raise!
Prayers will do you more good than (1)asking the parents to give you their kids dividend check or (2)trying to convince ANYONE you are worth 2-3 the pay of a private school teacher's wage!!!!!
----12 noon.. CNN just announced hotel bookings in Hawaii are down 74.5%
A question: Do you think the members of the hotel worker's unions will get a raise because "we deserve a raise"?
The village idiot is still active I see. Where do you get your outlandish figments of imagination? VI, you're spouting stuff off that the Shola didn't say, insinuate, or do.
p.s. Shola posted that last night (not Sunday). You sure you want to be spouting off with "lame brain"?
I see Mc Donald's hires the mentally challenged.
The next time eat there, I will ask the manager to put your job app on the top of pile.
They are always short of buzz boys, you are not qualified for the janitor position.
???? V.I.
AKFox you can bite your bitter bullet---the school district pulled their proverbial head out, and settled with a tentative agreement yesterday.
All I can say: is.. each contract renewal time you all go through the same ritual renewal dance even though you have political control of the school board and the borough assembly.
We know, the politicians WILL use the money from extortion to pay you all back for putting them in office.
I want to make one thing clear, the only credible argument I have seen posted relates to improved test scores. Those teachers who produced the increase have a valid argument -- they did something to EARN a raise.
As for the rest of you, do us favor: when you kiss the mirror take your lipstick off to show your compassion for the janitors!
And for the record, the rebuttals I have posted reflect the dominate public opinion of union "teachers".
You are NOT loved, respected, cherished, admired, adored, etc. because you have a diploma.
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