Community Perspective
Experience dictates closer look at the city’s budget
Published Sunday, June 22, 2008
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Stumble It!History is a good teacher if we learn from the lessons taught and heed the advice.
Years ago, unbalanced Fairbanks city budgets were prepared and often predicated on revenues that did not yet exist. As each year progressed and cash flow disappeared, we depended on municipal assistance to cover deficits. This worked well until the state did not come through and the city was six months into a budget year. Severe and painful layoffs were the result of this lack of fiscal stewardship.
The city council then proposed a charter change to mandate balanced budgets in the future and set a minimum general fund balance, which could not be eroded. This worked well as long as the charter was followed. Unfortunately, by 2001 the city depleted the $2.47 million minimum balance required by ordinance, and fell into debt. The newly created finance committee worked over a period of years to bring the city back to financial health and into compliance with city code.
The 2008 budget took a step backward. What should have logically been a maintenance budget in light of new tax restrictions, rising energy costs, and contractual pay raises, became a budget of growth with several new positions added. Compliance with balanced budget requirements was only met after adding $750,000 of state revenue, gambling on municipal aid. This repeats an ominous trend of building budgets on funds that are neither stable nor guaranteed.
Labor costs are a large part of the city’s budget, and contract negotiations are one of the most important tasks the council faces. Currently, the city has contracts with three of four bargaining units, with only the firemen’s contract outstanding. The firemen’s contract has been problematic for as long as I can remember. Even though the city strives for parity among contracts, it has not been achieved here.
Two areas stand out. Minimum manning requirements have necessitated much overtime, adding as much as 30 percent to fire department wages in a given year. The proposed contract raises the minimum manning requirement even higher, creating excessive overtime unless the city hires yet three more new employees. Staffing levels in all other departments are set by policy (not by contract), even though they also deal with life safety issues. In the event of a budget shortfall similar to 2003, the fire department would be exempt from layoffs. This is inequitable to other employees and to future councils whose options will be limited.
Second, the cash-out of longevity leave is much more costly in this union than the other three bargaining units because of the way it will be handled. Another recent development is the use of “me too” clauses that immediately give employees the same benefits another bargaining unit may receive even before their contract has expired, creating a contract that is perpetually open and making accurate budgeting nearly impossible. Re-opening the contract next year to “talk” about financially supplementing tier four employees under the state retirement system is another serious concern.
Finance committee member Jeff Johnson raised these concerns and calculated a first year cost of approximately $779,000. Three members of the city council also voiced concerns about cost, knowing that there is not enough fund balance left in the 2008 budget to cover this. With the passage of the latest budget amendment (adding yet another position), there is only $182,111 remaining in this year’s fund balance. The firemen’s contract will decimate that and require the council to dip into unrestricted general fund reserves for the first time in years. Former Mayor Thompson wrote in his final budget preparation for 2008, “I urge the new mayor and City Council to protect the fund balance.”
The council has no fiscal note from the city administration and no budget amendment before them showing the effect on fund balance. Normal wage increases next year and new employee obligations will require further reliance on savings from previous years, and this violates the intent of balanced budget requirements. The general fund surplus is for cash flow, emergencies and unique expenses that are not recurring, such as state grants requiring matches.
Revenue should be in hand before budgets are expanded and commitments made. Raising taxes on a population reeling from high energy costs will be extremely difficult. The city exists to serve the residents, and they will set the level of service they desire by the taxes they pay. The council’s job is to be the best stewards of those funds possible and manage them wisely.
Jerry Cleworth is a former Fairbanks City Council member and longtime downtown business owner.
Community Discussion
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Excellent information.
Indeed, excellent information.
However, I do have a comment on his statement about minimum manning being set by policy in other agencies and an attempt to set it by contract with the firefighters; he is stating here that the firefighters should write a policy to increase their minimum manning before they have approval from city council to hire the people to fill those positions. That method would certainly be seen (and rightfully so if it occurred) as the fire dept writing policy to manipulate and control city council. The fire cept is following the right procedure; 1-identify their needs 2- suggest appropriate solution 3-ask for resources to implement solution 4-(waiting on city council to respond)
I think his comment is innaccurate and unfair.
Further, the fire dept made the request in the contract as a secondary approach because all other requests have been denied and ignored.
No matter how many times to state bad numbers it still dosent make them true.
I know I typed "You" instead of "to"...hummm
I have never spread inaccurate information to mu knowledge. Cleworth has no solutions he never has. The city isn’t in a financial crisis and hasn’t been. Have you looked at the budget? The general fund balance is almost 6 million. It has a minimum of 2.47 million. This is a shell game the city has played with the finances for years. Remember when we could only fund the FD for six months? Oppps I just found all this money when our bluff didn’t work. He thinks a 10 man minimum is to much? This is the same guy that cost the city hundreds of thousands fighting for a 6 man minimum 15 years ago. I wish it didn’t need to be in the contract but its to the point that manning is a safety issue. He blasts us for longevity leave buy out? We have been without a contract for years and they have unfunded leave for four years. That’s why the buy out is more. Duhhh. He said the firefighters contract has been problematic well he should know he was the cause of the problems. Mr. Cleworth has a long history of fiscal irresponsibility and has wasted millions of city dollars assets. We are still under the black cloud he left the city under. He sold off all the utilities for pennies on the dollar; we have a revenue cap instead of a tax cap, legal fees out the wazzuu. I think we should give him a bill.
Can anybody believe anything that comes from the mouth or pen of Jerry Cleworth?! He despises the city fire fighters and will do anything to make them look bad. Even if that means using bad numbers. Just stick to selling coins Jerry!
I'm no Cleworth fan and he is largely responsible for the mess we have today. However, he has hit the nail on the head. This firefighter BS has been going on for decades in Fairbanks and the lack of leadership dating back to Dr. Woods days has fueled this fire.
The firefighters are collectively a group of selfish "me too" individuals. They will milk this town until it is dry. If you want to fix it then you need to NOT renew the contract and put the service (which they provide little of) out to private industry.
You will hear the screams all the way to Anchorage, safety, people dying left and right. The fact of the matter is that most of those they claim to serve certainly do not get served.
Unreal,, you have to be a fireman,,wow,you and your "put your life on the line" line of BS BS BS... Jerry Clewworth is the most honest and trustworthy person I have ever met in Faribanks, Alaska. I have know Jerry for over 30 years and have always found him to be honest and always acting in the best interest of Faribanks. To say the same about the fireman of this town in not possible. Take take take, is all you guys think about. Saving lives? Your history is not too good here either, your performance at the Nordale fire was a good example of "we need more money". You have use LIES about just about everything you do and call it "negoations". One example is you constant lie about ISO ratings and fire insureance. OH your insureance will go up without this-------.. BS again, my fire insureance has always gone up reguardless of what the ISO and YOUR fire depatment has done. Over paid and under worked would be a good MOTO for F.F.D. They need to go. DO NOT RENEW ANY CONTRACT,,, me too, evergreen, what ever. The LAW says one city council can not bind another. Private companys could not STEAL nearly as much you guys have over the years, they would be charged with FRAUD...
You guy’s absolutely kill me. Calling me selfish, greedy, thief, and a liar that’s great. None of you obviously have any clue as to what we get paid or what our workload is. My integrity has never been in question as the saying goes sticks and stones… The only lies I see here are the half truths you seem to have built up your rage on. That and the fake names you hide behind FRAUD.
Well Bike MIke again your half right. The only reason Thompson ran for city council was to step down and have the new mayor appoint a replacement. But the Elk's Club Mafia had figured that Seliger was a shoe in. Too bad the residents decided that change was needed. Now the city is running better than ever. Over 6 million in usable savings, crime is down, construction is up and Fairbanks is growing despite most bloggers best efforts.
BIg Mike, please tell me what your business is so I can make sure never to frequent it. But it's easier for you to hide behind the internet. So Big Mike, here's your chance. I'm calling you out. Be a man and stand by your convictions. Be a man reveal yourself. Surely a man with such strong opinions would have the moral backbone to remove the internet mask.
I am NOT a city fire fighter or even a volunteer fire fighter. However, I do support the fire fighters and thank them for the work that they do.
Wow Mike I see you ignored most of my comment I figured as much. A man who has to hide behind a mask to say his opinion is nothing more than a little boy crying wolf.
Unreal it's amazing that someone who's opinion differs than the blogsphere isn't related to a firefighter
hmm go figure
Well Mike I'll be waiting for you to poke your head out from under the skirt of the internet.
I think I'll be waiting awhile
Hey blackhelicopters ... be a real man and step out from that internet mask ... come on man stop hiding. We know you're ion there ... come on out. LOL
Individually, the firefighters are decent people just like everyone else. As a group they suck.
ThSeanWhite the firefighters certainly make a very nice wage with terrific benefits, better than 95% of us. Go tell the folks at Fred's how over worked and underpaid you are ..lol.
For those folks who think a growing Fairbanks is a wonderful thing .... you are strange. Fairbanks has literally turned into a toilet over the last 25 years and it is not a form of progress. Geeze, look at downtown. Just getting home at night is a trick .... and just look at that mess over by Sekins Ford ... puke!
Delta is looking pretty good these days.
Well let me be the first to wish you Bon Voyage
Threat I don't recall any threats. Please tell me where I threatened you. I just think you should stand by your word. If honesty threatens you, that's your own issue
Bugger -- I think you need a lesson on service areas -- FFD doesn't cover the Nordale area, its either Northstar or Steese depending on exactly where are you talking about. The only way FFD would be at a fire on Nordale is if they were called mutual aid.
FFD hasn't made one lie about ISO. ITS YOUR PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY TO FIND OUT IF YOUR HOMEOWNERS INSURANCE USES THE ISO PROGRAM. If your insurance company doesn't use ISO it's not FFDs fault, and they can't be expected to keep track of how ever single insurance company operates.
Aidey, I believe Bugger was refering to the Nordale Hotel fire in the early 70's. So much for relevant history.
How is it not true? For the companies that subscribe to the ISO system it does make a difference. Currently the fire department near where I live has tested to get their ISO rating improved from an 8 to a 6. I checked with my insurance company and if they succeed I will save $48 a month in insurance costs, or about $575 a year.
I'm all for some personal responsibility here, people need to know how their homeowners insurance works, it's not the fire departments responsibility to explain it to them.
Ahhhhhh, that makes a lot more sense than a fire on Nordale road, thanks.
What bothers me is the "most-favored-nation" clause. Automatically and immediately increasing benefits if another union successfully negotiates better benefits. Please. That should be unacceptable. You negotiate on YOUR merits. Don't hang off the coattails of others and scream like a child that you want something because someone else has it.
That and exempting the department from layoffs.... Your kidding me right? If this contract gets approved and the city runs into any financial trouble whatsoever, the fire department gets three extra people, and police and public works will lose AT LEAST that many.
THEN, when public works and police try to negotiate a contract, they will insist on the same treatment that the firefighters get. Guess what? All three departments that you can't lay a person off from when the city council/mayor mess up the budget. Thats not sustainable. As city managers, they are supposed to manage people as resources... not promote and protect your favorite department/friends at the expense of other departments that are just as critical.
This screams of poor long term management.
Thomas, Please read the contract. There is no layoff protection anywhere in the contract. That is just misinformation by Mr. Cleworth. The so called "me too" language is something the city has wanted for years. It's called boilerplate language. It makes managing the city easier. The minimum manning is in the contract. How many employees the city wants to have on staff is totally up to the council. If the chose to fill with overtime, that's a management right.
I would also like to add that the current financial position of the city is due to a city council that pinched those pennies, and looked toward the future. A lot of that was the doing of Steve Thompson.
Thompson has handed down a city in fantastic condition compared to what HE stepped into. Terry Strle will be judged on her actions and how the city is performing at the end of her term. It's pretty much wrong to say that because the city has a decent general fund budget that it's because of strle. She had nothing to do with it. She can continue the forward-thinking budget practices of the past, or look at that 6 million dollars as money to be spent.
Some people posting here obviously see it as money that could be in their pockets. Just because the city now has a law that says the general fund balance has a minimum of 2.47 million dollars, doesn't mean thats where the balance should sit.
I will read the contract tonight, in an effort to be as informed as possible.
How on earth is FFD supposed to know what percentage of people in the City have what insurance? You base your comment on the assumption of the "Firefighters knowing" that a larger % of structures don't subscribe to the ISO system.
Tell me, how on earth are the FFs supposed to know that?
How is this obvious? I'm completely failing to see where this is common knowledge to anyone who doesn't work in the insurance industry.
Mike I'm glad your insurance agency is doing so well inside the city. How many properties does state farm insure in the city of Fairbanks? Over 51%? I'm sure you'll educate us. Or maybe I should just spout off some uninformed opinions. City residents would do better with an insurance carrier that uses iso. That sounds good to me
Mr. Blackhelicopter, relax, your overinflated contract will passed tonight at the city council due to the heavily slanted (stacked) members, so please stop the whining, and remember us, the taxpayers that are going to take another hit to the pocket book. Gee thanks........
Mike, it's one thing for you to say "According to this source here this % of people have this insurance company"
Instead you keep stating that the FFs "must know" who uses what insurance, and what insurance companies use ISO and what don't. I have to say, that's not a part of a FFs training.
A person can't deduce without facts and evidence. So far I have seen neither presented in regards to FFD knowing the breakdown of what city residents use what insurance company.
What BigMike is leaving unsaid is that most commercial insurance firms use ISO. Who pays most of the taxes that fund the city? Commercial business. Remember that almost all city revenue comes from property taxes. Lowes valued at 13,884,314.00 and the other box stores alone account for more than all the residential property taxes combined. So who saves the most on insurance? Who pays the most. In reality they pay for the fire department and the city residents get great service for free. Oh BTW State Farm rates are based on fire loss in the zip code so the lower the fire loss the lower your insurance. If you cant read between those lines, (better fire department + lower loss = lower rates).
One would think that if BigMike worked in the insurance industry he would at least have knowledge of how it works. Maybe he is the receptionist. Phone call for someone who knows what he’s talking about? I'm sorry that was a low blow. I'm sure he knows all about it. Why would he hammer on a moot point if he did? I guess facts and reality don’t much matter to some people.
volley back to seanwhite.....
The FFD Union FAQ doesn't say they know about ISO, it says that the department having a lower ISO rating saves most people money. No where on there does it claim they are insurance experts. I've learned more about how ISO affects insurance from my insurance agent then from the fire department.
As for the high insurance rates, it means we live in Fairbanks, Alaska. Home insurance rates are based on a lot more than just the fire department. They are based on crime rates, how you heat your house, what your house is built of, how old it is etc etc etc. There are tons of different factors. The fire department having a better ISO rate means that insurance rates are lower than they could be.
BigMike,
I was the one that informed you that State Farm no longer uses ISO to determine fire insurance ratings. But I also informed you that Allstate DOES use ISO to set ratings. Those two companies are arguably the largest insurance providers to home owners in Alaska, though I couldn't tell you which is bigger or what percentage of the properties each of them insure.
Chief Flynn from the Steese Area V.F.D. is the one that told me which (of the two) did and which didn't. That's something Chiefs potentially learn as they deal with trying to lower their dept's ISO ratings.
As Aidey said, it's not standard practice for "Joe Firefighter" to know which insurance companies use ISO and which don't. Firefighters are simply taught that ISO is a an agency that insurance companies use to help determine fire insurance rates. There's generally a description in those classes of the types of things ISO evaluates, and that's about the end of it. I believe that's why you see such a generic statement on the fairbanksfirefighters website. I too was always under the impression that all insurance companies used ISO, but now know that some do and some don't.
After our last conversation about ISO, I called my State Farm agent to find out exactly how they determine fire insurance premiums. No one locally could answer my question, but they contacted the State Farm underwriters who cover the NW U.S., and those folks called me back. After a very long conversation with one of their underwriters, he basically informed me that there are numerous factors taken into consideration by State Farm when they set insurance rates by zip code.
The primary factor, as Sean said, is claims/loss. A zip code with higher claims will eventually (i.e. - the next time they evaluate the zip code) see their rates rise.
The underwriter said State Farm also considers several other things when they do their evaluations, but from the conversation it was hard to tell just how much weight is placed upon each of them. In no particular order some of those things are: the properties distance from a fire station and whether it's a "manned" station (with paid and/or volunteers); local water supply; whether the F.D. is paid or volunteer.
At this point when comparing the local F.D.'s it appears to me that the best comparison to make when considering insurance companies that don't use ISO is fire loss statistics. That of course takes into consideration the total property value each F.D. protects, their yearly property loss statistics, and I would assume the number of actual fires they respond to yearly would be a part of that equation as well.
Call me biased, but I'm relatively certain because I know how quick and skilled our folks are, that those statistics would reflect favorably upon FFD.
Anyway, I hope that additional information helps.
Thanks for the info ADF. I'm sure the insurance companies have some complicated computer program they plug everything into and it spits out a number which is probably why no one local could give you any information.
I hope that when State Farm calculates the fire loss total they use an average for a few years so that one bad fire won't drastically affect rates. Sometimes no matter what the FD does a building can be a total loss (thinking of Talkeetna's high school fire from last June).
I actually happen to agree with Jerry in at least one aspect here. I don't care to see a new contract approved if the City is just going to turn around and non-fund some portion(s) of it in the near future. While I love my job and what I do, working for the City of Fairbanks has been anything but a joy. In my 15 years with the City, the Council has tried to get rid of the F.D. twice, and they non-funded numerous financial portions of the only contract I've seen that had any cost of living increases in it. I don't feel like going through any of that stress any more and am constantly reevaluating my options these days.
That being said, the City does have a plan to cover the entire cost of this contract without diving into the Cities reserves. I know it involves increased ambulance fees, fees for non-City residents who use the F.D. services, grant monies, as well as other sources of expected income.
I've watched Jerry over the years as he's been a councilman. He appears to be an intelligent man and I've rarely witnessed him say things regarding the FFD that weren't at least fairly well informed and true (to a degree).
That being said, I have witnessed Jerry, Donna and others on countless occasions only share the bits of information they want the public to see or hear, leaving out the information they don't want the public to see or hear. This effectively colors topics/issues in order to garner public support for whatever their current agenda is.
Jerry does the same thing once again with this community perspective. He says, "Minimum manning requirements have necessitated much overtime, adding as much as 30 percent to fire department wages in a given year."
Depending on how this statement is interpretted by the reader, it can easily be viewed as very misleading. What Jerry leaves people believing is that all FFD employees are working up to an additional 30% of their base wage, per year, in overtime, because of minimum manning requirements.
Indeed, manning is the biggest reason for overtime, and sometimes minimum manning is the reason. However, position manning was also a very large factor for years in overtime, and to a lesser degree still is today. To be clear, very few, if any FFD employees work that much overtime in any given year, and the vast majority don't even come close to working that much overtime, as department overtime has been down significantly since the signing of the 2002 contract, which he also neglects to reveal.
Jerry also doesn't tell readers that contracts between the firefighters union and the City have contained manning language for many, many years; as well that minimum manning/staffing language is common practice for F.D.'s around the country. The contract I was hired under in 1993 contained minimum manning language. I do not know if previous contracts did as well or not, but the 2002 contract also does.
None of these contracts have ever resulted in minimum manning requirements for other City bargaining units. Why? Because our job is wholely different than all of the others. Ours regularly requires us to work as a large, organized unit in a battle against the clock. In other words, in many cases the longer an incident goes on, the more unlikely it is that a positive result can be obtained. Confused? Simply think of a fire. The longer the object burns, the more damage is done. Or think of a victim (fire or medical) who's brain cells start dying as quickly as 4 minutes after they cease breathing.
These incidents, as well as many others, are very manpower intensive. In the fire service we mitigate emergencies by very quickly throwing as many trained personnel at them as necessary in order to try to obtain a positive end result. In general, the larger the emergency, the more personnel they require.
Honestly, in light of the fact Fairbanks doesn't have a sales tax (which it needs) I can understand charging non-city residents for fire/police services because we don't pay anything towards maintaining those services because we don't pay property taxes to the city.
I wouldn't necessarily like it, but I could understand it, and would much rather pay a fee like that than see public safety underfunded and parts of it eliminated.
"Revenue should be in hand before budgets are expanded and commitments made. "
Truer words have never been spoken.
You missed it completely BigMike. State Farm stated fire loss/claims are THE biggest factor used to determine insurance rates. They evaluate those losses within each individual zip code and set insurance rates by zip code.
Look at page 38 of the ACS phone directory. All of 99701 and some of 99709 are within the City of Fairbanks. If FFD was an inefficient, ineffective fire dept with higher claims than other local fire dept's, then insurance rates within those zip codes would be higher than other zip codes, but that is not the case. It's not the case because fire loss claims within the City are lower than for most of the surrounding areas. Why? Because in almost all cases except arson, we get there quickly and extinguish the fire before it does major property damage.
Mike, you posted above: "Aidey - Look at FAQ 2. Although they use the word "most", this FAQ response strongly implies that ISO rating influence insurance rates."
First, "most" does not imply "all". Is "most" accurate? I don't know. I'd agree it should probably be worded to simply indicate some do and some don't.
Next, for insurance companies that DO use ISO to determine fire insurance premiums, companies such as Allstate, a F.D.'s ISO rating IS a major factor that influences the amount of money a homeowner/property owner pays for their insurance. As Aidey said, she spoke to her insurance agent and if her local F.D. lowers their ISO rating from an 8 to a 6, her yearly insurance costs will drop by over $500 per year.
So Aidey, mind sharing who your home insurance company is?
My insurance is through Country, ADF.
Mike, intentionally misleading would mean that the people who wrote the FAQ knew when it was written that some companies don't subscribe to ISO, and that it's possible that one of those companies potentially has a lot of subscribers in the city of Fairbanks.
Like ADF said, He didn't know that there were any companies that didn't use ISO until talking to the fire chief of another department.
If anything the website has an error of omission - not a huge deal. This whole "FFD is trying to rip off the people and is intentionally lying to them" is getting really old.
Mike you are ONE example of ONE person who owns property. More things than just fire affect your insurance rates. If you use a insurance company that subscribes to ISO FFD has a 3 and Steese has an 8, so there is definitely going to be a big difference there unless your property in the 99712 area has advanced fire protection measures built in, like sprinklers.
If you don't subscribe to an insurance company that uses ISO, and uses a loss amounts to judge the rates it could really go either way.
A bigger area with more people and more commercial buildings is going to have a higher dollar value of loss than an area with less people and few commercial buildings. (The city vs the area of 99712 with fire protection) Unless the company uses a per capita system and figures out a percentage of dollar loss versus the total dollar value of all the property in the area.
If they don't use a per captia/percentage system then it is plausible that someone in the city could have a higher fire costs strictly because they have more fires which = more money lost.
If the company does use a per capita/percentage system the % of loss versus total is going to be a smaller percentage inside the city because they have a much much higher total value of property than the area of 99712 that has fire protection.
Argh.....They are meaningful when looking at one property and how different ISO rates affect that property. Again, to use myself as an example. I live in an 8 area, if the area goes to a six I save $575 a year on my insurance. If it were to go down to a 4 I bet I would save over $1000 a year.
ISO sure as heck is meaningful if it means I can save %25 of my total insurance costs just by living in an area with a 6 instead of an 8.
If you took and identical cabin to mine, but the other one had built in sprinklers, had drywall over the log and used the safest heating method possible their insurance would be lower than automatically.
It's even possible that if that cabin was in an 8 area, and mine was in a 6 the other cabin could have lower insurance because of the extra measures taken to make the structure more fire safe.
So yes, it's possible to "overcome" the differences in ISO ratings between areas, but I guarantee that if the City's ISO went up to an 8 people sure as heck would notice.
Actual quotes from when I purchased the insurance last year. I knew that my local fire department was testing to get a better ISO rating and that their goal was to move from an 8 to a 6. I asked the insurance agent to prepare two separate quotes reflecting the two different ISO rates. Which is how I got the difference of $48 a month, for a total of $576 a year.
The city going to an ISO of 8 was an example of an extreme I used to illustrate my point, I'm perfectly aware that the chance of the city going to an 8 ISO rating is almost nil.
IT WAS HYPOTHETICAL! Goody bloody grief, I was making a point about how comparing two different structures, even if they have the same square footage, in two different areas doesn't really work.
Right now FFD can't even handle their day to day operations much less a catastrophic event like an earthquake. The fact that the city routinely has to call for mutual aid for ambulances and always has to call for mutual aid for a working structure fire indicates that here in the now there is a problem, let alone if there is a large scale emergency.
Big Mike- how can YOU accuse anyone of cherrypicking? You are the finest example of that on this blog. You never did explain your drive to comment sooo much on FFD issues and soo little on others....did you not get a red plastic fire hat as a kid?
Really, is this the best you have? Uninformed opinions with NO statistics, no hard facts, no direct information. I am so disappointed, you are not even a challange to debate with.
lol Hybrid, I've given up. At this point I'm just repeating myself, and I'm sick of talking to a brick wall.
How many Fairbanks Fire Fighters actually live inside the city and will be impacted as property owners if this new contract is approved?
It has been interesting following all of this. However, I find it sad that when the "majority" can not conform the "minority" to their will, they resort to personal attacks instead of staying on issue. EVERYONE is entitled to their own opinion. I prefer to think of Fire Fighters as heros not bullies.
hckywtchr - I believe it's four, but i'm not sure if that is supression staff only or also cheif officers and administrative staff.
As for mikes reasons for them not living in the city, neither of those are accurate. I've been reading the comments on this for weeks and I don't remember a single person saying they didn't live inside the city because they didn't get paid enough. I believe at one point someone said it wasn't economically feasible to make all the FFs relocate into the city limits.
As for cows and horses, the term originally used was "livestock", which could be anything from chicken, rabbits, to sheep and horses.
There is no residence requiremnts for employment in the city. There are a number of reasons why people live outside the city limits. I am a city resident. When I was hired I at $11.69 an hour, I couldn't afford to buy a house inside the city limits. I purchased a house in Norht Pole. When I could afford a house in the city a bought one. I enjoy living inside the city. Many people don't enjoy urban living. That's why the live here. Also some people like to live in the hills for the weather and the view. It's a choice.
Please tell me when there was a residency requirment.
Hasn't been in the last 20 years
One may be able to afford a house for 40,000 a year as long as it has less than 3 bedrooms, no garage and absolutely no land. Sean didn't say "if we got paid more more of us would live in the city", he just said he didn't think it was very affordable.
Who actually wants to live within a few blocks of Cushman? I used to, it was not fun. The term "sardine" comes to mind. I don't blame anyone for not wanting to live downtown. You may be able to get a nice house, but it's not going to have any room for a yard, and you are going to b which is important if you have pets, kids or like to garden. Plus there is absolutely no privacy.
So yeah, 40,000 a year may get you a decent house, but the house is going to be the only decent thing.
Different people like living different ways. You may not have noticed but more than 1/2 of the local population lives outside of the city. Some people love living in the heart of a city, others don't. I personally do not, and I can't blame anyone else if they don't either.
I also don't recall the firefighters saying that the property taxes should be raised, in fact, I do believe that at least one of them mentioned a sales tax to help fund city services that are also used by non-city residents. I'm not going to go digging through the collective 500 comments on this topic to quote it, so hopefully who ever the FF was that said that will post.
The FFs are not accountants. The FD tells the city what they need to operate effectively and the city figures out how feasible that is. It's up to the city to figure out how to fund it and it's up to the FFs to fight for the necessary services. The city has other options than raising property taxes, so you can't say that the FD is raising property taxes, because thats not how it works.
Mike you live outside the city and you complain. I moved from U west into the city and my taxes went down. I recieve better fire portection, a higher level of EMS, better police response, street maintenance and garbage pick-up. I think if people actually knew what the city has to offer they'd want in. But when city council members are hell bent on keeping this town as small as possible it's hard to educate people.
A sales tax is the most responsible thing for the city to do. This city has a huge influx of people that come into the city and end up using city resources like the Police, Ambulance and Fire. The police and ambulance are probably the most used by non-residents, but the occasional car accident/car fire use the fire resources.
The fact is there are a lot of non-city residents that use city resources and the city tax payers are paying for it. Right now an ambulance transport costs 1/2 of what it costs to operate for that call. If I lived in the city THAT is what I would be pissed off about, not the fire department trying to give the city the best service that they can.
Ok fine then, if people don't want a sales tax the property tax payers and keep shouldering the burden of all of the city services even though non-tax payers use some of them too. Honestly, I think that anyone who voted no for a sales tax can't complain about having high property taxes.
hybridalaska, are you an adult yet? hmmmmm we all really like the witty name calling you come up with....aidey, seanwhite and bigmike have been producing an interesting discussion on the FFD and other topics....are you pulling out the race or gender card next.....
Yikes work for a few days and I lose the baton. Oh well good discussion. Only thing I didn’t see about ISO and State Farm is the delineation of the zip code. There are areas outside of the city that are 99701. These people benefit from the zip code rule. The inverse is true if there are fire losses in those area’s the whole zip code gets dinged. And yes BigMike fire insurance rates are high in Alaska due to the fact that there oh geezze its a hard one…..there is little protection offered state wide. People like BigMike are getting fat off the high insurance rates and want to keep it that way. Now we see the true root of BigMikes opposition to FD’s its in his pocketbooks interest that you pay more for insurance. Kind of hypocritical don’t you think? Oh well off to do my part to make the city a better place….my neighbor asked for help resurfacing her driveway.
Who should I call for an insurance quote on my house and the ISO ranking?
Nanook, as of right now I only know of two insurance companies that use ISO - Allstate and Country; and one that doesn't - State Farm.
Call any insurance company and simply ask them to explain to you how they determine their fire insurance ratings, or if the local office can't explain it to you, ask them to put you in touch with someone who can.
As for the F.D.'s ISO rating where you live, call your local F.D.'s business office. They should be able to provide you with that information.
Insurance=extorotion
Can't buy a house or own a car without it.
They take your money in premiums every month with the promise that they will cover your loss in a disaster. But what really happens? A flood hits and there are many claims and the insurance companies cry foul and say that if they have to pay all those claims they will be broke. (Remember that they have made as much money as oil companies). They say that to prevent economic disaster and to prevent the insurance companies from going out of busisness they need federal aid. So FEMA uses our tax dollars to cover the losses that the insurance companies can't pay, I guess because the didn't collect enough in premiums-or they spent it, so that insurance companies can stay in business and continue to collect our money.
BigMike says-
"But that is the problem, so much of the FFD arguments are points that are taken to the extreme. The city cannot afford extreme. We can afford reslistic with the understanding that may be situations (catastrophic events like eartquakes) that may overtax our emergency response. I think most people understand that will be situations that you may not be able to get fast response. But the trade off is much lower costs."
I find it ironic that BigMike lambasts FFD for "extreme" examples, yet, the threat of those extreme examples are exactly how he makes his living...hmmm, hypocricy?
Curious, Insurance agent doesn't like fire dept. I wonder what one may find when he researches that topic...BigMike is just following in his fathers footsteps.
Mike do you have an even marginally valid point to make?
How does the saying go….your not paranoid if people are out to get you. I think BigMike makes that point verbosely.
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