Local lawmakers lean toward TransCanada
Published Thursday, July 3, 2008
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Stumble It!JUNEAU — With a vote on the TransCanada gas line proposal expected in the next two weeks, local lawmakers say they’re generally in favor of the plan.
“At this point, I’m still inclined to vote yes,” Sen. Gene Therriault, R-North Pole, said Wednesday. “The hearings have not produced anything that points out a fatal flaw in moving forward.”
Therriault and Sen Gary Wilken, R-Fairbanks, and Reps. Mike Kelly, R-Fairbanks, David Guttenberg, D-Fairbanks, Scott Kawasaki, D-Fairbanks, and John Coghill, R-North Pole, all said this week they were leaning toward a yes vote or would definitely support the proposal.
House Speaker John Harris, R-Valdez, said he was truly undecided, and Rep. Jay Ramras, R-Fairbanks, said he was leaning toward a no vote.
Sen. Joe Thomas, D-Fairbanks, couldn’t be reached.
The Legislature is considering whether to issue an exclusive state license and subsidy worth up to $500 million to Canadian pipeline builder TransCanada under the Alaska Gasline Inducement Act.
Local lawmakers in favor of issuing the license generally pointed to the protections offered through AGIA and the potential benefits of having the pipeline built by an independent company rather than by companies that also produce gas on the North Slope.
Producers BP and ConocoPhillips are pursuing their own pipeline project outside AGIA.
TransCanada supporters also pointed to testimony from legislative consultants that issuing the license probably wouldn’t hurt the state and could encourage competition among pipeline builders.
Taking TransCanada out of the game and relying on the producers would weaken the state’s position, Guttenberg said.
“At the end of the day, I think if we don’t support AGIA, nothing happens,” he said.
Ramras, the one open opponent to issuing the license, said backing TransCanada would be a waste of state money and could delay the construction of a pipeline.
He argued that the requirements imposed by AGIA were largely unnecessary in light of federal regulation.
Supporters and opponents in recent weeks have both said they expect the proposal to pass.
But this week, Harris and Coghill described the outcome as an open question.
Ramras said he thought lawmakers were becoming more critical of the plan as time passed.
Lawmakers are scheduled to take testimony on the proposal July 8 in Ketchikan and return to Juneau for hearings on July 9.
For more news from the capital, visit www.newsminer.com and look for the Capital Focus blog.
Community Discussion
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Backing TC and making an investment to proceed is the right thing to do. I am glad to see that the majority of our delegation is continuing to support building a gas pipeline that meets Alaska's requirements as well as federal regulations.
Denali supporters have been delaying a gas pipeline at our expense for the past twenty years. What would it have cost BP and Conoco twenty years ago compared to starting now? Representative Ramras is not on the side of the people.
My friends in the fuel oil business want this thing with TransCanada to go forward. Getting low cost gas to Fairbanks is NOT a priority for them. Waiting for 12- 15 years for gas is great- for them.
Too bad about everyone else. Hey- you elected these guys.
I heard that Therriault tried to cut a deal to prevent any public hearings on this Canada deal. Is that true? Some reporter with the News-Miner should ask Sen. Green about this.
If you ask me the hearings are a waste of time. Gas to Fairbanks has nothing to do with gas to the open market before the oil is gone and 12-15 years is a good estimate. Gas to Fairbanks at the earliest is two years out if a bullet line is started this year and won't do any good unless we start ordering conversion kits that might get here before the gas.
Jay, Dude! come on! You're supposed to be representing Alaskans.
The big oil companies have done nothing but screw us on the natural gas. They have always had enough to do the line and bring us a lower costing heating fuel. They're too damn greedy and will drag their feet forever to drive the price up even further.
I think it's time we turned the tables and made them bend over. They'll promise to develop and ship OUR natural gas or we'll revoke their leases on the natural gas resources and have others lined up before the line is even done.
At $140+ dollars a barrel and the relentless ravaging of our wallets, it's way past time for Alaska to take off the kids gloves and stop playing so damn nice and cautious.
If the oil companies try to sue us, we'll just put it in front of a jury and see how they fair. If they win any kind of settlement, we'll drag it out for 20 years and get it cut to nothing but pocket change. Learn from their example, they've been playing this game longer than we have. It's time to play hard ball.
Lead, follow, or get out of the way!
ONAPA- You are right on. Who needs those public hearings. The people of Alaska should not be consulted.
You have a great attitude. You should run for office! You'd fit right in.
Thank goodness this is coming to an end. The State missed it's chance, it could have set up a lottery like Nenana. Instead of guessing when the ice goes out, we could pick the time, date and year that the first gas will enter a pipeline. Wait, it's not to late. Come on lets have the Great Alaska Gas Pipeline Lottery.
WHERE IS THE GAS? Time to quit talking about North Slope gas and start pumping it down the line. Oil is over $146 bbl today and at the present rate of acceleration you can 'turn out the lights the party is over'.
Come on bullet line!!! My money is on the little pony to get to Fairbanks first. Who's ordering the pipe? Better do it quick!!!
The neighbor's tree is looking better and better by the minute. Now where is my bow saw and ax???
I'm just waiting on distantthunder to post something about how we can make a gas line out of cardboard and suspend it from candy canes.
I laughed at sdoowneks comment.
Oh yea, I forgot to ask, Exactly what makes us so special, that we in Fairbanks must to have it's own gasline to save us from high energy cost? Does no one else in the state, or the rest of the country count?
Sounds great the only problem I see is that TC has no gas and no promises of gas to fill this pipeline. We've got all our eggs in the "build it and the gas will magically appear" basket. I hope the legislative dudes (gals too) and the Palinistas are right, it's a substantial bet w/all our money.
There should be no consideration OTHER THAN TC. They are the only company that met the AGIA requirements. Period.
I laughed at sdoowneks comment too......(;-P)
[wait 'till you see me dressed as Santa ]
Although it would be a blessing for Juneau to endorse the idea of using little plastic gaslines immediately, it's not necessary.
State governments are always by nature just like a moose in the headlights.
This you can do now without waiting for the SantaClod to cut you a check from Juneau.
My initial little gasline project would be 818,000feet of 4" HDPE from Prudhoe to Atigun Pass..
this would cut the costs and increase safety for trucks to transport LPG-propane south to Fairbanks.
$10mil [roughly]
LPG-propane is used in mostly portable devices..
use these for surviving the next winter until something better comes along.
LPG can be used for transport fuel too.
LPG can increase the efficiency of diesel generators, yes it is worthwhile to park a propane tank with a little Century or Impco propane carburetor fixed to the air intake of a big diesel generator..
it will save you 15% in fuel.
The potential architecture of plastic gaslines can compliment AGIA, or it can live without AGIA...
and it can accomplish the objectives of AGIA if Juneau suddenly slid into Lynn Canal.
Juneau looks out for Juneau first, Alaska is just the rest of the family, and the family can eat out of the FoodBank.
Juneau isn't a heck of a lot more friendly than BigOil.
Juneau just wants one single easy to operate platinum plated custody meter located on the south end of Prudhoe... all gas goes thru there, not interested in anything else... just a goldplated cash-cow, simple.
Maybe the pirates stole the NorthSlope from Alaska..
Maybe we should just forget Juneau and Pudhole and focus on developing the gas potential south of Salchaket Slough..
another perfect application for plastic gaslines.
distant thunder, you are suggesting a 4-inch diameter pipeline? What is the average flowrate in such a small pipeline?
SamBam, consulting the people on AGIA happened last year in the regular session OPEN TO THE PUBLIC. The whole process played out on public TV. I am sorry if you didn't participate then, and if you are not communicating with your legislators, then you are not participating now. The "public" hearings are not hearings, they are information briefings to the few that can show up. There is no statewide public broadcast of the public hearings so instead of hearing what is going on, we are hearing what is being published. We spent millions retrofitting our congressional buildings to be able to watch and listen to their deliberations and how is that being used? By spending millions carting the legislature around the state where there is no broadcast capacity.
What if Representative Ramras is on the mark? If that is the case then he is not laying out a very good argument against AGIA. He is not helping the process by presenting an alternative to build a line instead of finding ways to make the proposal work. If FERC is a potential problem as he says, shouldn't he and his fellow legislators be getting together with the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission to deconflict any problems and expedite the process?
The same question goes for the producers being a problem. Shouldn't we be asking our partners holding the leases why they won't deliver the gas? Last year we did and they won't, so our government needs to get the State into a position to force the hand of those that are not willing to develop the resouce. As for supporting the TC proposal, it is the only one that has met the state's requirements. The proposal came in on time. It puts the state in a strong positon to get the gas to market. If the producers don't produce, then they are in violation of their lease, and they are gambling with losing everything.
Denali Group should also be looking at TC's proposal and trying to help get it through the legislature and FERC process. They won't make a dime if the gas rights are forfeited for lack of production. Denali has the ear of Representative Ramras. Denali is experienced in dealing with regulations and knows how to speed up the process or slow it down to increase their profit margins. Does our represntative represent the people or special interest?
Isnt there something in the Trans-Canada proposal that substantially limits the amount of gas that can be sent through any line other than theirs?
To me, that equals a monopoly, is very close to price fixing, and worst of all, poses a huge threat to the possibility of using our natural gas in-state; Therefore the proposal is void of merit.
Can anyone quote this part of the contract?
MathewErricson, I agree; put big oil in front of a jury of Alaskans and revoke their leases ASAP.
woodsman, we can set the price of the lottery ticket at 1% the price of a barrel of crude, mabey collect enough to run our chainsaws for a winter LOL
BTW sdoownek, I see you comment on all the oil/gas stories, but I have yet to read ANY ideas you have concerning this dilemma. Cmon, spill your guts; let us all hear your words of wisdom, rather than your childish stupidity.
Nothing worse in my book than someone constantly talking smack, with no substance to back it up.
Put up or shut up.
Also, DenaliGuy, AGIA does not prohibit a privately funded competing line, it prohibits the state from giving financial support to a line capable of carrying over 500 million CF/Day. That is one of the requirements that the experts recommended to the state last year when drafting AGIA to avoid a competing line beating the state sponsored line.
Big Mike, you've summed up my view on the TC pipeline perfectly. It's not perfect, but it's a far cry better than the other options out there, and will meet Alaska's needs in the immediate future.
nanook1934-----
What is the flow rate for a 4" LPG-gasline??
Oddly, calculating exact pipeflow is an imperfect science.
The calcs quickly snowball into tons of physical variables.
Then the engineering books suggest using "rules of thumb" shortcuts.
So, the easy way to figure it out is to group by relative viscosity at equal temps multiplied by pipe aperture area.
...try this-- LPG flows kinda like water, maybe better.
Take a gas powered fire-pump that builds 200psi at a 4" discharge..
check how fast it pumps water..
wow, that's a lotta water!!!
It's easy to see that a $10mil 4" LPG-gasline will pay itself off really fast if you can keep all the trucks rolling..
then when you finally get the $100mil long noodle gasline to the railbelt at Goldstream you can fill railcars fast enough to pay for the whole project in just a few months.
The 4" LPG-gasline will have many more mini-pumpstations than TAPS..
but the 60hp pumps are much cheaper.
This whole gasline could be built miles away from the HaulRoad because it doesn't need an access road to build and maintain it.
When the weather gets really cold you can blend ethane with the propane for making ArcticMix.. then when it gets really-really cold you can pass pure ethane to storage in Fairbanks for making polyethylene-pellets.
Fairbanks could be making polyethelyne-pellet for export faster than TC will get their project built.
Imagine that, Fairbanks actually getting an industry that supports the town and pays Juneau more baksheesh.
I'm not too worried about the 0.5bcf arbitrary limit capped by the AGIA..
we can always renegotiate
first we use gourmet food, then fine wine..
..as a last resort we use the waterboard....(;-P)
please study carefully the slideshow at www.fairbanksgas.com
some of you have already given me ideas that I have added to the plan..
remember, this is YOUR gasline
I'm just trying to help
.....flash/runble
BigMike..
check out this link..
http://images.google.com/images?um=1&...
On the FastFusion website they estimate a small crew can lay 7000feet per day with one of their machines.
http://www.fast-fusion.com/products/mft2...
Actually the conditions on the NorthSlope route I show in the slideshow are much more favorable for laying a long distance pipe quickly..
there's no taverns within 100miles, so the crew doesn't have to worry about hangovers.
It's as flat as a bowling alley for most of the route in winter.
The 818,000ft route can be quickly laid out in 2000' long sections when pulled by dozer from 5-pipeyards.
Laying this HDPE pipe is amazingly easy.
The hard part is convincing a bunch of grouchy old Alaskans about how easy this is.
The other hard part is collecting the donations and materials and moving it all to the jobsite.
SCADA keeps us from getting too worried about propane leaks.
Too bad big sections of the old Haines pipe have been ripped up..
using the new pipe-rehab methods it could be reconfigured to ship propane to Haines.
Denaliguy:
My thoughts: Reduce consumption.
That is really the only solution.
There is going to come a time when production can't match consumption.
That's somewhere between 100 to 115 million barrels per day. We're at 85ish today, and increasing a fairly steady rate since 1900.
The answer is not producing more--the answer is stopping the idea that we need to burn fuel to survive. But that's not realistic for most of you, as you want to drive your trucks, atvs, planes, airboats, or whatever other gas suckers you own for your recreation/compensation.
Did your great-grandfather *need* fuel? What has changed in the last 75 years that now human beings *require* oil to survive? Answer: We've gotten lazy. We've gotten egocentric. We've gotten this crazy idea that we're special, and we deserve oil
We don't. We're stupid. We have no way to produce the amount of oil from the ground that we consume.
Sure, there's other things out there, like coal-to-oil, but that's really, REALLY expensive, and produces a lot of carbon dioxide.
Tar sands, you say? That's all well and good, but how are you going to power the production? LNG. That's just perfect--consume 1.8j to produce 1.2j. There's math that is sound. That's not even taking into consideration the water required.
Shell and Pemex, for instance, are finding less oil than they sell.
The fact is, most of the large fields have been discovered. Yeah, I know you non-geologists think that's crap. I know you think it's the eco-nuts that prevent more oil from coming out of the ground. The elephants were discovered without 3D seismic. Now that we're running seismic everywhere, why haven't we found anything big?
Everybody got excited about Tupi, last fall, but that was only 8 billion barrels. That's about 1/15th the size of Ghawar, discovered in the late 40's.
Your solution is just to suck all the oil out of the ground right now, because we "need" it. Ever hear of forward thinking? Keep the oil in the ground, or your grandchildren are going to pay $75 per gallon for unrefined crude.
Stop burning fuel. That's my answer. Stop being lazy. Stop thinking that you _NEED_ a Yukon/Expedition/etc to go to freds. Stop scheduling 23 flights a day between NY and DC. Stop using fuel for entertainment. Examine history and adapt.
.........or you will freeze to death.
Hopefully, anyhow.
And as long as I'm ranting, stop breeding, too. There are too many people on the planet sucking up energy.
BigMike, ONAPA, thanks for the info.
sdoownek, I give up. your entire post is devoted to oil, when the topic of this thread is natural gas...a resource that, in Alaska,
is almost limitless. (Yea, I consider a several thousand year supply to be "limitless")
Your comment "stop burning fuel" is so irrational its laughable. Good thing you weren't around when man invented fire, or we would all still be living in trees. Doesn't sound like you even live in Alaska.
Lastly, I do agree with you there is a severe population problem; the 'stop breeding' program probably should have started with YOUR parents.
Denaliguy, you just proved that you know nothing about the petroleum industry, so my thoughts were wasted.
I'll go back to not posting. Nobody cares anyway.
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