Gang shootings dubbed a wake-up call for Fairbanks
Originally published Thursday, August 28, 2008 at 12:00 a.m.
Updated Thursday, August 28, 2008 at 8:45 p.m.
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Stumble It!FAIRBANKS -- A variety of opinions about the prevalence of gangs in Fairbanks have surfaced among city officials following recent shootings and a gun-related school scare.
While Fairbanks Police view the activities as a wake-up call to the community, others see the crimes as having little to do with the kind of gang violence often seen in major cities. Police have asked that the community be attentive to suspicious activity and keep the police informed.
On Aug. 15, members of the Bloods and Crips gangs were involved in a shooting that stretched over a two-mile course along College Road.
Just prior to the incident, police were investigating a shooting that occurred earlier that week where shots were fired near Danby Road and at the intersection of Airport Way and the Steese Highway.
According to police, the shootings involved the same groups of people.
“These instances are positive proof that we are seeing gang-related behavior in schools and at the military post,” Fairbanks Chief of Police Dan Hoffman said following the latest shooting.
Just a week later, West Valley High School went into lockdown mode for about two hours after a 17-year-old senior brought an unloaded .45-caliber handgun to school that morning in his backpack. The student reportedly has gang ties, according to Alaska State Trooper Sgt. Chad Goeden and school superintendent Nancy Wagner.
During Monday’s City Council meeting, council members shared a few remarks about the activity.
Councilman John Eberhart, who sits on the Public Safety Committee, questioned why there is no safety officer working in local schools.
“We have a threat of shooters in our schools or students bringing weapons to school,” Eberhart said. “It’s astounding that a police officer position cannot be funded, and I would hope that after last week’s incident, it will be further considered.”
Still, some residents are more convinced than others that there is a problem.
Hoffman was quoted following the recent shooting saying that police “have been sounding the alarm bell that there is gang activity,” in Fairbanks.
Councilwoman Vivian Stiver noted that Hoffman had been warning that gang activity was on the way. "And I wasn’t really sure if I saw it that way," she said. "But after the recent shooting, I think we need to make sure we’re moving swiftly to curtail the activity in town.”
Now, Stiver is talking about getting the Legislature involved to enforce harsher penalties for gang-related crime.
“As a community, we cannot tolerate it,” she said.
Stiver said she is “continuously impressed” with the work of Fairbanks police but also recognizes the community can alleviate some of the burden on police by being more aware.
According to Hoffman, police often spend most of their time handling daily crimes, which leaves little time for preventive tactics to keep the crime rate down.
“If we’re always playing catch up, it leaves little time to be proactive in fighting crime,” Hoffman said.
According to a report Hoffman delivered to the city’s Public Safety Commission in 2006, in 1971 Fairbanks police operated with 49 officers for a population of 18,600 residents. The department now has 44 officers and a population of 31,182 residents.
That population does not include the influx of military and borough residents who work, shop and spend time in the city.
Just to meet the lowest national average in the western United States, Fairbanks police would need to have 56 officers on staff for a city of the same size, according to the most recent Uniform Crime Report issued by the FBI in 2005.
The city would need 71 officers on staff to meet the nationwide average, which is 2.3 sworn officers per 1,000 residents, according to the report.
“Ultimately, with that level of staffing and that level of resource allocation, one could effectively ... prevent an incoming flood of crime,” Hoffman said.
The response and investigation following the shooting required almost the full attention of the police, which left little manpower to deal with simultaneously occurring incidents such as assaults, domestic violence calls, DUIs, burglaries and other incidents.
“At any given time, there are a certain number of incidents we need to respond to,” Hoffman said. “Right now, we’re hanging on by the skin of our teeth just to be able to adequately function and respond to crimes in progress and in maintaining the law and keeping the order of things.”
The recent activity came as no surprise to some council members.
“The incident that happened is not new,” Councilwoman Tonya Brown said. “Our population is comprised of people who come from everywhere around the country, and one thing struck my attention: Everything is wide open here in terms of school security.”
Brown previously lived in Detroit where gang-related violence is more prevalent.
“Many kids are coming from areas where they have to interact with people through plexi-glass and use high-security metal detectors,” she said. “There is a false sense of security up here and kids have a higher ability to commit crime up here, and it’s scary to me.”
Still, Brown didn’t see the current situation as a severe problem just yet.
“We have not seen a real gang problem here, and I hope we never do,” she said.
Councilman Bernard Gatewood, who has an extensive background working with youth crime prevention, said he believed there was a "merging" gang problem in the city. By "merging," Gatewood was referring to the influence of actual gang members on what police refer to as “wannabe” gang members.
“Some say there’s a gang problem in Fairbanks and some say no,” he said. “Gangs often times drive the problem underground where it festers and grows and then we forget about it. It’s been dormant here in Fairbanks and then it sprouted up again.”
Gatewood mentioned some preventive measures the city has taken such as forming a gang task force within the police department to focus on gang-related issues.
“There are things in place that we’re working with,” Gatewood said. “It could potentially be a problem, but it’s being dealt with in a proactive manner.”
Stiver said she believes that gang violence and other crime is more than just a policing problem.
“It’s the entire community’s problem,” she said. “The best way we can help the police is by talking with our neighbors and being aware of what’s going on with our children.”
Community Discussion
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These gangs need to be disbanded immediately and effectively before it completely roots into our community where we cannot get rid of it. How can we enforce? Curfews, probations, monitoring are ways we can get a chokehold onto the gang activity. We need a WELL KNOWN tip hotline for gang activity. And we need a dedicated investigator that can track the movements and actions of these potential criminals. We cant just moan about how these gangs are gonna ruin the community, we need to think of ideas as a community and take action before it roots.
To stomp the gang activities everyone must participate!
If you have a cell phone and see or hear these infected
slimes call the police!
Unfortunately for efforts to crack down on gangs, gang members don't go around wearing signs. And if you start to limit innocent people's freedoms, you've gone too far. I have no interest in giving up any inch of my freedoms in order to curtail gang activity.
Good points "Opsamk!"
But until the "powers that be" truly dedicate the resources needed to address the situation, this will continue to get worse.
Quite frankly, you are NOT going to disband gang activity here, or anywhere else.
If that criminal element wants to be here in the Interior, they're going to be.
Especially since many were either born and raised, or are long-time residents here, OR are stationed here through the military.
Unfortunately, alot of these so-called "Billy-Bad-Asses" wouldn't last a week in large-scale Lower 48 cities where "real gang members" roll.
So we're stuck with them.
Monitoring probation is a step, but as you probably already know, the Fairbanks Correctional Center?
Way overcrowded.
Unless these individuals commit any real violent crimes that require lengthy jail terms, they're back on the streets real quick.
And, for the most part, right back to the same things.
And curfew's?
It all comes down to enforcement.
Tip Hotline?
Another good idea, BUT we live in a society and an era where "snitching" (informing law enforcement of criminal activities)comes with dire consequences at times.
When people can actually SELL clothing that criticizes the so-called "snitch," and glorifies violence upon that person...we've got big problems.
As far as putting a dedicated investigator on the problem?
Not gonna happen.
Even the gang element locally would require more than one investigator. More like a "CRASH" unit or something to that effect would be needed to combat the problem.
People also would have to pony up the support behind it.
Sadly, Police Chief Dan Hoffman has to beg, plead, scratch and scrape to have the numbers he has already, so I don't see that happening.
Our City Police force remains understaffed, frequently needing assistance from the Alaska State Troopers, UAF, Airport and North Pole Police, etc. when any problems on a large scale arise.
You're right "Opsamk," as a community, we need to take action.
Sometimes that means being the "eyes and ears" of our understaffed law enforcement agencies locally, because this is more than just a law enforcement matter.
Let's face it, gang activity is not new here to the Interior.
Never was for almost as long as I've been here.
And it's not going away either.
Believe that.......
To fix the problem this community will have to do some things it dosen't seem willing to do.
You will have to get involved. When a crime is committed in your presence, report it and be willing to testify in court if needed. Police cannot enforce a law if there is no one to testify or fill out a complaint.
Also the Police forces in this area need to be at least doubbled. Not just FPD but Troopers, UAF, NPPD, Airport and Ft. WW PD as well. That is going to cost some $$$$$$$ (Can we say Taxes?)
Complaining won't fix the problem. Get involved!
Just Myspace ganstas...50cent called them wankstas.
Gangs in Fairbanks....what a joke...parents need to install oldskool discipline
Preston
While it is true they dont wear "signs" they do more often than not have distingushing features that are identifable.
Next time any of you are at a high school look at the number of kids who are dressed in predominately blue, red or gold. They are dressing that way because it brings the color of their eyes out
bring the hammer down hard, or you will be sorry,
the negative effects of not dealing with this now will be a cancer.
How many of you out there ever see a police car in Fairbanks? How often has the police made any type of major arrest of these "gang members" for dealing drugs? Hoffman thought 25 chronic inebriates were enough to form a committee to study that problem, but despite knowing about national gangs in Fairbanks he did nothing. Since these gangs do not act in an isolated manner, more than one police force if they are being investigated would be involved. The truth is more likely the police have done nothing in informing the public about the "gangs" and what they have done if anything in disbanding them. Maybe it is time to look at getting a police chief who deals with the real problems, not his master thesis and writing community perspectives. Or were those writing assignments for English classes.
Teach these morons how to shoot and maybe they will solve problem themselves by killing each other?
I find it interesting that the police are just recently admitting that there is gang activity here. Many of us have been sounding that warning for two years now, and police have denied it.
Not sure there is an easy fix for this, however. Awareness helps, and for heaven's sake, let's fund our police department so they have a prayer of responding to this in an effective way! But there are two sides to this. One is the enforcement side, and one is the social services side. We tend to think that just getting tougher is going to solve it, but we're dreaming. The roots of gang activity need to be addressed, and a big part of that is the number of families so dysfunctional that kids seek "family" ties elsewhere. I believe part of the reason we're seeing this upsurge is huge cuts in social services funding. Individuals and families are not getting the help they need, and this is the result.
propzilla-
Old school discipline is not acceptable any more. Child social services has taken care of that. Along with removal of capital punishment in schools..I am not talking about beating children, I am talking about judicious use of a paddle. That paddle hanging in the Principals office was always good enough reason to behave myself!
As a child I always stopped to ask myself whether or not what I was about to do(if I knew I wasn't supposed to) was WORTH the spanking I knew I would receive if caught :o). Sometimes it was and sometimes it wasn't. It really, honestly kept me from being an even worse kid. I knew it was coming, I bent over, grabbed my ankles and took it and it was with some pride if it was worth it!
Talking to me never made me listen! Pull out the paddle and you had my full attention!
Kids today do not have this...They are told from a very young age that they have the power and that anything they want should be theirs just because they want it! If we look at this a different way, how about our kids are crying out for discipline!! Gangs have very stiff penalties for disobedience. Do we?
I know a teenager, 15 at the time, who was on the cusp of going the wrong way, they were caught by Law enforcement, arrested for drinking, blew 2x the legal limit, got their little hand slapped and some community service.
Within a month of being arrested they were spanked by a parent(first spanking EVER, they raised a fist to hit the parent), and a relative called the cops and child services, got to move in with same relative who did not discipline them, got to run wild there, quit going to school, doing drugs, smoking, drinking, hanging out with wannabe "Gangsta's" talking trash ect..
Now if that same parent who wanted the best for them had gotten some back up for that one spanking..said child would most likely have gotten their crap together and still be in school! With never another hand raised! They were an honor student just a year before the incident! They would have graduated this year.
We need more cops, one for every person in the city. What a way to get more money. Gangs can be stoped pretty easy;if there is a desire from everyone, not just the cops. Do your part, lots of target practice, and stay alert.
Wouldn't be having this discussion if good parenting were not a lost art....
Bloods, Crips and whatever other gangs, meet the Alaskan Sourdoughs. Whatever town your came from you may want to return because you picked the wrong town. Unlike other towns where most of the citizens are unarmed people in Fairbanks tend to shoot back.
My grandmother always told me to shoot anything I've never seen before. And we also have a rule here to shoot every third gang member, the second one just left.
As parents, grandparents and citizens of Alaska we need to wake up and be aware of our surroundings and whom our children hang out with. Monitor what they watch on TV, in the movies, what movies they watch, and especially whom they converse with on the internet. The internet is now the new communication tool for gangs and how many recruit new members.
Contact the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children and get information on how to make children safe.
I remember growing up in midwest where we practiced tornado and fire drills. Now those same schools practice what to do during a drive by shooting or a shooter loose in the school. We need to start having the same thing here in our schools.
Let's start now before our town gets like the other gang/crime infested towns we all left. If you moved here and brought trouble with you, don't let the border gate hit you on the rear on your way back out.
We will NOT tolerate this kind of behavior. Elected officials you too must start acting now to help stop this problem. I suggest we all form neighborhood watch in all neighborhoods, not just in town.
"...a 17-year-old senior brought an unloaded .45 caliber handgun to school that morning in his backpack."
I'm under the impression that a 17-year-old is not allowed to buy, own, or possess (unless in the presence of an parent, or guardian, or responsible adult) a handgun. If he's found in possession of a handgun - especially in an inappropriate place (i.e., a school where even I cannot carry a gun because of state law) - then it would seem that there are penalties that can be levied (that don't impinge on anyone else's "rights").
What makes gangs "serious" is when there is money to be made. If there exists a sufficient market for drugs in the Fairbanks area, gangs will take root here. With our present way of doing things as a nation, this market cannot be stopped, and it cannot really even be dented. It's supply is safe, and its demand is steady.
Since we refuse to legalize drugs, and we are unable at present to search every vehicle that enters town, someone is going to be cashing in on the drug market, be it a common street gang, a more organized gang, or random people. Reducing demand through education and drug rehabilitation programs helps, but is not sufficient.
As odd as this may sound, the option I would take, were I an understaffed law-enforcement agency dealing with an emerging gang problem, is to be selective about who to prosecute for drug dealing. Make it known that criminal organizations who commit acts which threaten innocent people are going to be ruthlessly pursued.
However, those that go quietly about their business, and are only violent to their competitors out of the public eye, should not. In fact, by turning a blind eye to criminal organizations who conduct themselves more respectfully, it is likely they'll be able to "take care of" the other gangs for us, for free.
This cannot be tolerated, but we need to let the police handle it. We need to show up at city counsel meetings and let it be known far and wide that people demand action. Just watch. They know how to deal with this, and they will do so if we demand it.
I would argue that most people posting here have not taken the time to fully evaluate the problem. A greater percentage of the posts here believe that "more cops" are the only answer. However, this does not adequately state the measures necessary to resolve the "gang problem", and until the community fully realizes and identifies both short and long term solutions--and forces those in our government to implement them--we will continue to see gangs in our community.
For example, if you have an infectious outbreak and the hospitals become overrun, but the doctors are only wiping the puss out of the wounds and sending you on your way, you will continue to have the infection spread. Do you call for more doctors or change the way you address the problem.
While I agree that in the short term some enforcement will be necessary, it is not a method that can adequately quell these activities over the long haul. In the long term the community themselves will have to take on a greater responsibility, and society will need to change to allow that. Ensuring that you, raise your own children, teach your children morals and ethics that exceed social standards, knowing who your kids friends are, and the freedom to actually discipline your children when they misbehave are a few examples.
And yes, there is a difference between discipline and abuse.
Currently our system teaches children that if an adult "yells" at them then they can call child services, I believe this to be wrong and not a healthy environment for the child or parent.
The people must also demand that the government support more youth programs that help instill a sense of self-worth. Whether it is a school shooting team, a wider range of after school sports, a work program, or forced volunteerism it matters not. What does matter is that we fill the void that in these children's lives. These gangs are feeding some need that their members have, be it a need for family, power, belonging, or usefulness. If you merely remove the pacifier the members will continue to seek out something to address this "want" and gangs will continue to plague our society.
From what I understand FPD has known about gang activity and have been trying to bring attention to it but community leaders have been in a state of denial. If we admit that there is a gang problem in Fairbanks then we have lost our identity and innocence as a quaint Alaskan community. Certain community leaders are still in denial about Fairbanks having a serious drug problem; which although corresponds with the gang activity, was here way before the gangs were here.
Let's face it folks, we are no longer small town America. The first step in correcting a problem is admitting we have one. For God's sake, quit arguing about it and give the community the tools we need to stop it. There are ways to indentify gang members but I don't know what they are. The community needs to be informed of how we can spot them, so that we can turn them in.
FPD needs more funds, and more staff regardless of the gang activity. But we also need a few special task forces to deal with the gangs criminal activities. I also agree with Aurora that some funding to social services to deal with the social aspect of these gangs is also needed.
We may not be able to get rid of all gang related nonsense but we can at least make Fairbanks an unpleasent place for gangs to try to root themselves here.
They must be pulled out by the roots, and at once. There should be no question that they are here. We as alaskans, in the best community of our state, must not tolerate gang activity of any kind. Send them back to "LosAnchorage!" Just kidding.....
Here we are once again puffing out our chests an pounding our fists saying we won't stand for this. Make sure you read the other articles here in the paper. There is one about a known gang member Alex Nelson. Since he said his gang activity was just a joke he's allowed to move to Monroe and continue playing football. Mom and Dad even hired lawyers to fight for their gangsters rights to play football. No mention of education or rehabilitation just football. We blame cops, soldiers, parents and everything else but when it goes on right here in front of us we sit here and take it.
May be we haven't had that much of a wake up call yet after all.
Wow, I'm more concerned with what schools NativeAlaskan knows about that are allowing capital punishment in them!
Maybe the reason that nothing is being done is the fact that the drug buyers in this town are at every level of the social structure. Might be interesting if they arrested the dealers and the dealers disclosed who buys their drugs as part of a deal. I bet there are a few people in this town who wouldn't want their names in the paper. Just like cleaning up the legislators, the local level won't do it.
"Still, Brown didn’t see the current situation as a severe problem just yet.
“We have not seen a real gang problem here, and I hope we never do,” she said."
That's nice. People shooting at other people in the streets isn't a real problem, apparently. I guess until someone is shot, it's not a "real" gang problem. I'd be interested to see what constitutes a "real" problem. Loaded weapons in schools? Injured pedestrians? Death? Anyone who has ever lived in a crime-ridden area knows that if not nipped in the bud, these things only get worse.
Gangs have been around this area as far back as 20 years ago. And the police have been trying to tell us there is a problem.
But like the one reader said people kept their heads in the sand. The police can only make the arrests it's up to the courts to inforce it. As long as they allow the bad guys to go free and not serve their entire time then it will continue.
I believe who heartedly that if you do the crime you serve the time, I don't care how old or young you are. Remember when you point your finger at the police there are four fingers pointing back at yourself. Until we get involved and change our court system then it's just as much our fault as anyone else.
And if you don't vote don't complain.
I have lots I could/should say, but don't have time right now.
FYI,
the kids have been saying for years:
North Pole grows/cooks it;
Lathrop sells it;
West Valley buys it...
The source of the gang problem is obvious - the military bases bring these people here.
Wes, it is NOT all the military bases. My former son-in-law was not from a military family but he had been in and out of trouble so much I'm surprised he didn't have his own jail cell.
Same goes with other people I know here in town. So don't blame the military all together. There are bad eggs from all walks of life. Some of the draft dodgers also raised some rotten apples.
In regards to the young 17 year-old, he has great parents and grand parents. The problem in some cases is lack of parenting in other cases gang activity, especially here, is like a fashion statement. It's cool be to "gangster" because of the images on tv. On the other hand, the gangs are brought here via the military because they were given a choice to clean-up or get locked up. I have heard others theories the gang members join the military so that they can learn military tactics and get out use that imformation for their gang activity. This IS very scary. Another thing to keep in mind is where you let your children "hang-out". I was at a local store yesterday and saw a group of kids that were no older than 12- 14 "hanging-out" at 10:00 at night. Call me old but that is way to late to be "hanging-out" with nothing to do on a school night. This how the gangs get the kids and problems start. Kids get involved in gangs because they have no one to look up too. Parental units are distant and believe it or not kids need role models. So they end up turning to that gang member that "cares" and "supports" the child. Makes they feel good about themeselves because now there is some form of meaning and direction. They have a purpose. Parental units have let them down but the gang member will always be there to guide and support. Once they have pulled them in they have to do what is asked of them, no matter WHAT it is....Just something to think about....know where your kids are now?
Just a quick note to who wanted to know which schools still have the paddle..most in the lower 48 specifically Enterprise Alabama..Also I have no doubt in my mind that a cop would beat my child with a night stick or now a days a taser at least I can get their behind with love and redirection
We have a zero tolerance for weapons,” Wagner said following the incident. “We want to emphasize the fact that our schools are safe and that our plans that we have for crisis work.”- obviously someone is incapable of constructing proper sentences, because this makes absolutley no sense!
NativeAlaskan- with you all the way!
Bornnbred- right on!
tyrannosauruswrx- indeed...
corinne- something like that yeah...
Well, unfortunately throwing money at our local yocals is not going to be enough to fix the problem. Maybe it will be a start- if they manage it properly. And as we can see (and they have admitted) they are already so spread out they can't deal with the problems this community has. I do not think more committees will be a very big help, more like another useless drain of money that is already in short supply. What to do?
Well...I personally think that gang problems are much worse than "chronic inbriate" problems. The police department should begin assigning people in the force on some type of gang watch shift, also I think it is imperative that we have officers assigned to schools- even if they are not there all day every day. I bet there is grant money somewhere for this...
Next...this community MUST realize that it is not all on the police force to deal with this! We are called a community for a reason, and we need to band together to make sure that this "fungus" does not take over our whole yard! This ain't the "gang's turf" it is OURS, and we need to do what we can to protect it! Yup that means keeping an eye out for things that don't seem right around us, and knowing where the children we are responsible for are at. Yup, when you see some car doing a "69" with another car and it looks suspicious get the license plate number and call the cops- it probably is suspicious! You saw someone driving recklessly? Call it in! Be more observant and act on what you notice. You hear some kid talking smack in the mall or grocery store? Let them know you don't approve of that. Sometimes perfect strangers need to tell people their behavior is unacceptable. Go forward and make a difference people!
Being a father of 3 children, can someone give a list of some identifying characteristics of a gang member? Just some things we can look for to help keep our children safe.
Well, if this event is our community wake-up call? Then as a community let us consider reengineering our local security system under an elected Sheriff. On top of the benefit of having an elected head of police during times of need, the Sheriff can also deputize the aroused citizens to help fight crime.
"The source of the gang problem is obvious - the military bases bring these people here."
If it did not take five fairbanks police officers to arrest one intoxicated person maybe they would have more time to look into gang activities. After the person was arrested the officers spent another 20 minutes standing around shaking hands and congradulating each other. Is that not a complete waste of our hard earned tax dollras?
valkyrie
"Wow, I'm more concerned with what schools NativeAlaskan knows about that are allowing capital punishment in them!"
He said
"Old school discipline is not acceptable any more. Child social services has taken care of that. Along with removal of capital punishment in schools..I am not talking about beating children, I am talking about judicious use of a paddle. That paddle hanging in the Principals office was always good enough reason to behave myself! "
alaskastoryteller
"Remember when you point your finger at the police there are four fingers pointing back at yourself. Until we get involved and change our court system then it's just as much our fault as anyone else."
That four fingers pointing back is meaningless - looks to me like you are pointing your finger at the court system.
Police have allowed the gang activity to go unchecked for years. They use gang members as witness and for false testimony in other cases. Gangs make job security. Judges must follow the laws and what evidence is brought to them. Law enforcement officers need to take lie detector tests when making reports. Not all are corrupt but it's the old bad apple thing.
sites with what to look for info.:
http://www.barrowcountynews.com/news/sto...
http://www.19thcircuitcourt.state.il.us/...
http://www.gangfreekids.org/gangs.html
http://www.hammondpolice.com/gangp8.htm
Hope this helps.
Monroe is recruiting gang members to play foot ball, West valley gets locked down for a student having a gun. Not sure how its a military thing. Sounds like a cop out to me. It's just easier to point at the military.
If you saw kids hanging out after 10 pm, what did YOU do? Remember it takes a village.... Do you think comming on here and telling us about it makes it better? Walk up and question them, make them feel uncomfortable, make it an "uncool" situation for them. As soon as they talk back, give them what their parents should have.
The police will use this to justify more officers and they will always overstate the threat to keep themselves on top of the budget cycle. They might be more effective if they were not out enforcing petty traffic violations and seat belt laws. The above comment about taking 20 cops for an arrest is about true. Police are not going to solve this, not that they can't be useful. The military is going to have to be addressed. It is ALL a military problem and certainly not ALL military are involved but there is large portion of crime caused by military members. Also the military has lowered their recruitment standards to get enough people to fight the needless Iraq war. I think the military needs to step up. Perhaps when their people get in trouble close the base for a day or two.
This isn't just a parenting issue. Most of the hard core bangers in Fairbanks are in the army, or their parents are. Thank Ft. Wainwright and the army's relaxed enlistment standards for this. Just another price to be paid for us being in Iraq.
I think this isn't just a problem starting in Fairbanks, but a problem that started down in Anchorage and has grown.
Remember last few years how we hear stories about gangs in Anchorage and shootings occuring nightly and at places that were seen safe. Today Anchorage still has this problem and what Fairbanks need to do is make it really clear. Gang activity will not stand here and we will do what we can to stop it from growing.
Yes let's blame it all on the military, they must be the problem. Grow up and wake up. If this were because of the military it would ebb and flow with the changes in personnel, but it doesn't. Gang activity has been around for at least twenty years and until now the FPD has been denying it, just like they denied there was a car theft ring in Fairbanks. Previous gang member activity has been charecterized as wannabes and posers, but now that there is no way to hide it the problem suddenly becomes real. It will pretty much take just about every measure cited above to fix the problem, so when they come to you for help, pitch-in or stop b**chin.
P.S. There are much fewer gang affiliated people trying to join the military, due to the very real possibility they might have to go to war.
Oh yea, if they were military members, there would be alot more damage.
The source of the problem is very simple --- money can be made selling drugs in Fairbanks and northern Alaska. Like gang members come here for our southern California climate in December. Cocaine is a major problem in this region, but who ever gets arrested for selling or using. It is not the high school students buying this drug. Kids are used because they fall under the juvenile system if arrested. Maybe someday all the dirty little secrets about this town will come out.
You know gangs have been around a lot longer than 20 years. Gangs such as the Hells Angels and others have been in town forever. I guess everyone turns a blind eye to those. The community leaders and police can only do so much to treat the symptom. The police can't be everywhere at all times. The problem lies with the parents or guardians. These kids have been shown that this behavior is acceptable or that there is no consequence to their actions.
I think that NativeAlaskan has a point. People are too afraid to punish their kids. I can't believe the way children speak to their parents these days! Calling names and talking back--maybe if their was a little more fear in the home this wouldn't be happening on the streets. I do believe there are extremes and those parents should be punished. There was nothing wrong with paddling a child when I was growing up. The thought of the paddle definitely kept me out of some trouble. I just read that there are schools now (lower 48) that are allowing the teachers to carry weapons. Now that sounds a little ridiculous. We will carry a gun, but heaven for bid spanking a child. Something it definitely wrong with this picture.
I am very impressed with the unimity of the folks who have commented here. I too pack a gun but lets face it, if we have to use it, well then we will be scrutinized as a criminal. Yes, it may save our lives but but then. Especially should criminal live- God forbid, then if that happens we will be sued by the criminal. We need sound self defense laws, we need more police, State and local, we need the Citizenship of the Interior of Alaska to stand up and be counted and like has been stated previously--root out and make Fairbanks and the Interior a very unpleasant place to take up business for these thugs!
Public whipping would work!
As a community, Fairbanks must stand up to this. From the kids to our elected officials. As Alaskans, each of us must take a long, cold, hard look at this infection and best figure out how to excise it from our community. In my opinion, it should be dealt with swiftly, decisively and with extreme prejudice. Granted, there's little money available or to be made available for more policemen to patrol and protect, lawyers to fully excercise the law against the disease, or apparently legislators who rarely look beyond their own front doors. But there is a community that is either aware or becoming aware and THAT is a start. Through it all and I saw it for 18 years, Fairbanks is a community of concerned, caring people. Some come and go, like the military, but they remember the sense of community, take my word for it. Don't let this fade away and hide and fester till it pops up again. I advocate several things mentioned by posters here; it starts at home with proper discipline and educating our kids about gangs...it continues in our schools with even more education and administrators who are knowledgable about gangs keeping an eye out for the symptoms. It is a staffed professional police department trained to handle situations that the disease creates and forces upon the average law abiding Alaskan. It is legislators who are proactive and have it in their hearts to create laws that physically tell the disease that it...will...NOT...be...tolerated.
As to the part of the "individual rights and priviledges"...if one of my family members is harmed by gang related activities in any way, there will be one pi**ed off grandfather returning to Alaska and it will be open season on gang members. If they have running gunfights down Airport Way, not concerned about anything other than blue or red and a stray bullet happens to cause my family harm...unbelievable. You diseased gangbangers don't care about anyone's rights to common laws or priviledges to life, you would have just revoked yours. I don't advocate frontier justice but in that instance, I would.
These drug and gang problems are the reasons I know where my kids go (If they go to a friend's house I GO to meet the parent/s or call to make sure they're there) what they're doing and who they hang out with.
My teenage son sometimes complains about my monitoring but I inform him that since I'm responsible for him and his actions while he is a minor he will follow the rules or else.:)
I believe that these gang issues are because of the market for illegal drugs and lack of parental concern as to where their children are. I know there are multiple reasons for their presence but time and again these have been posted too.
I realize its easier for some to blame the MILITARY or other factions but in the end their OWN community is also at fault as well yet those few insist on turning a blind eye to their own backyard.
I agree (LOL) the gangs aren't up here to enjoy our frosty winters. They're simply following the drug market.
Few are really interested in keeping the 'gangs' out of Fairbanks because the number one thing they would do is to start screaming to get rid of the military base here and very few will say that. Rather blame the cops, parents, or something a bit more pc.
So we are going to have gangs so Seekins can sell them cars, so Wal-Mart can sell them some plastic crap, etc.
Close Wainwright down and crime will fall off significantly in this area.
Arm yourselves and get lots of target practice. Even if you have to defend yourself in court, and get sued if you do not kill them, it is better to defend yourself than to be a victim. If these idiots think they could pay with their life, they might think twice before pulling their pistol out.
YAY!
Oh my goodness. The military is NOT to blame for this. Yes, there are a few bad apples. But the majority of the people that are in the military are great people, and they put their lives on the line so that you can practice your freedom of speech to sit here and bash them. I have lived in Fairbanks my whole life. I am not a military brat. What's the saying "If you can read this, thank a teacher, if it's in english thank a soldier". We need to be gratefull for the military and stop blaming them. And if you don't like it, move to a communist country, good riddance to bad rubbish! There are so many parents who are not involved with their children. Parents should know where and what their children are doing at all times. So many of these "gangsters" have always lived in Fairbanks their whole life also. And it is THEIR parents to blame. But you wouldn't even be able to tell them because the parents are right there along with their children doing dirt. Like Cofey corner. Almost every body in that family is doing things they aren't supposed to. But they stick together. And the police have had to know about them, and they do nothing. It amazes me. But when it comes to them it's all hear say. So stop blaming the military already.
Boy, NativeAlaskan, you hit the nail on the head!
I've seen the same story play out more than once.
However, state law does give the parents the legal right to do what they feel is reasonably necessary to enforce discipline of their children. And the police usually back them up!
If only parents had the backbone to do what is right for their kids.
Welp, the majority of Ft. Wainwright is about to be elsewhere...guess we'll see if there is huge drop in crime. There won't be...but we'll see.
Someone said close the post for a couple days to teach a lesson HA!..that makes me laugh. You assume all military lives on post and what about all those civilian jobs? Besides you would punish an entire group of people for what a few individuals might have done?
Being around the military for the majority of my life, I have absolutely no doubt that some soldiers are worthless. However, for every dud, I know four or five outstanding soldiers who are outstanding human beings who contribute not only to the military but the communities they live in.
But hey, whatever, all I care about is the soldiers all come back in Sept 09 if not sooner. Nothing else matters.
Joe53 had it correct; the blight came this way from ANC. Has been here for awhile. Community leaders here pretty much need to pull their heads out of you-know-where.
Gang activity is well-documented among military ranks; has been for awhile. There's even a DODSS publication out there for how to identify gang activity in schools.
There was an incident out on Eielson that is still under investigation that implies gang participation, and I've seen these people in their colors.
It is rumored the Aryan Nations are trying to set up shop here; can't really confirm it tho'.
Some Russians down in Delta told a flagger that they 'own this town'; there are a few chop shops that are going strong down there as well, as I'm told from a reliable source.
17 y/o kids can get their mitts on a gun from a thief or their parents' stuff; no problem. C'mon now folks.
Face it, we're a little behind the power curve, whether we take a vigilante stance or not.
Yota: "There was an incident out on Eielson that is still under investigation that implies gang participation, and I've seen these people in their colors"
What incident? Please share if you have factual information.
Do you have first hand knowledge or did you "hear" about something? Facts and rumors are two very different things and if you don't actually know first hand, then you are simply contributing to a rumor.
:)
Hang em.
mamabear0f2.
I too have NOT heard of any incidents on Eilson concerning such incidents.
As for the DODs flyers/brochures etc are meant to INFORM people and create AWARENESS so if they happen to see someone enganging in these things they will recognize the signs,colors and behavior and report it to the MPs or in an NCO's case confront the individual. The DOD schools also educate the kids on how to avoid gangs and drugs.
I hate to rain on the parade of the few but Fort Wainwright and hopefully Eilson are here to stay whether you like it or not but look at it this way who would you have to blame if they weren't here. I'll tell you NO one but yourselves.:)
For all you Military haters and bashers you need to wake up and point the finger where it REALLY belongs. 2 of the 8 wannabes are military. These two idiots have been reprimanded and is restricted to the base. The other 6 idiots are not military and they are FREE to run how they like. So while you are blaming the military for doing their job your good ole boys are not. So I ask this? Why is it ok the soldiers are not allowed to roam free but the city locals can? How is that fair.
And there has been mention that the MP's should be helping track these wannabes but what you don't know is that MP's are only allowed to deal with domestic violence cases off post that involve only military. So I say this... Until you truly know everything about the laws of the military keep your opinions to yourself.
I am amased at how this forum can get so upset and finger point at a group (military, police, etc) when two articles down was a story about a kid (not military BTW) who said he was apart of a "gang". Where is the out rage? The finger pointing? The bashing? This kids parents went to court so he could get rules changed to play football for another team when the rules did not permitt it. He won. I know, it must be because it is now a person, not a group right? Maybe because he isn't in the military? Maybe this, maybe that. Bottom line is some of these so called gang members are kids. A lot has to do with PARENTS doing the right thing. Take responsibility for your kids and stop pointing fingers at a system or group. If you have a kid in a so called "gang" you have the power and responsibility to fix it. If you need help - seek help, it's out there. A kid brought that gun into W.V. That kid has parents. Let's get going parents. I'll take care of mine I just ask that you take care of yours and stop pointing at everyone else. For the military bashers, rest assured that Fort Wainwright is working hard on it. They don't like it any more than anyone else. Let a soldier get a gang tatoo or gang poster - they are headed for lots of problems if their leaders find it. If we all do our part (Military fix the military, Parents fix the kids, and Police get the drugs) a lot of issues will be solved and solved faster than finger pointing!
LoneWolf91 - my challenge for Yota to produce evidence is based on the fact that we are stationed here at Eielson, we live on base & my 2 kids go to school on base. There's been nothing publicly announced that I know of here on base and so therefore, unless Yota is "in the know" here on base, I'm assuming it's all rumor with nothing to factually back it up which is more typical. But in the fact Yota referred to the issue as "an incident out on Eielson" I'd venture to guess Yota isn't personally first hand in the know here.
FYI info are like you said simply to keep an eye out for this or that, same as with the flyers about don't drink and drive and so on.
But Yota, by all means, if you have factual information that we can check out ourselves, please share :)
diogenes...riza
Diogenes, I am sorry to say but, you are about the most ignorant person in this forum. How in the world can you blame the Soldier's and Airmen in our comunity for our problem? Sure does this involve them in some ways, yes, but they are not o blame. When the young men and women that are protecting our free world are here in our community it is their community also. Let's not forget that those service members get tested ( I am quite sure) pretty regularly. Instead of trying to blame someone that is a little different than the other people in our community, (come on , it is way too easy to blame the military people for our community's problems) let's just try and get to the root of the problem. NICE COMMENT RIZA!
armywife_92
I had been thinking the same thing.:) There were only 2 military involved (whom have been punished) YET these few whining about the military deliberatly ignore the fact that the other eight were locals.
The ones whining about the military being solely at fault obviously are in deniel because if they admitted their was a problem in their own community then they have to do something about it.
It reminds me of this saying. If you aren't part of the solution you are part of the problem.:)
I'm eagerly waiting for Yota to put their money where their mouth is too and cough up the info he/she says that they have to prove their points.:) My guess is that Yota hasn't a clue and is just trying to stir the pot even more.
We're waiting.............................:)
No prob. :neener:
FWIW, I'm a retiree.
One of the cops interviewing folks in said incident is a neighbor. Nasty little fight at the Yukon Club. Assault charges are pending. They also support the Troopers out on the Richardson Hwy if stopping some of the drug runners from Delta-- with a BIG gun. Got that straight out of two of Eielson's cops. Seems they run in pairs and like to ram stuff if there's trouble.
The folks I've seen wearing their colors I've seen twice now- red and white. Not exactly looking like basketball or track uniforms.
Aryan Nations- friend had a nice little chitchat with supposed members at the North Pole VFW when this was discovered. He has informed the Troopers of their presence.
Flagger on Delta commentary- straight out of her mouth from while she was on her work shift.
Google 'gang activity in US military'; here are a few links:
http://usmilitary.about.com/od/justicela...
http://www.stripes.com/article.asp?secti...
Report opens in pdf
http://militarytimes.com/static/projects...
So, is there a difference between stirring the pot and trying to increase awareness?
I live next door to a guy that works with a guy who knows this guy who was in jail with a guy that told him...that, that sounds like a rumor.
Yota - "One of the cops interviewing folks in said incident is a neighbor. Nasty little fight at the Yukon Club. Assault charges are pending."
Your statement says nothing that gang members were involved.
And just to let you know, they are Security Forces. You should address them as such in the future. They aren't "cops" as they like to consider themselves.
So of course, anything past pulling people over because they didn't use the "3 second rule" in stopping at a stop sign which isn't even a law, or because someone went 20 in a 15, yeah, a scuffle at the Yukon Club was probably the biggest news in recent history for them.
Eh.
:)
THANK YOU RACEFAN!!! I thought I was the only one who read the article about the punk who couldn't make the second string.
ATTENTION FAIBANKS!! Get your heads out of your @$$. There is another story about a self admitted "gangsta" in West Valley and his mommy and daddy sued to let him change schools and play football.
Last week West Valley was locked down do to a gun in a locker!!
Rather than blaming the military maybe we should close West Valley, they are all gangsters, every one of them they are scum, West Valley is ruining this town..... NOW DO YOU SEE HOW STUPID YOU SOUND.
Here's another dirty little secret, some of you may have noticed recruiting offices around town. That means some of the scum (military) you refer to came from.....dare I say it?....Alaska.....and some even from.....Faibanks.
Hmmm!?! Let's see who else imports young outsiders? Let me think... its not far from where the shooting happened....Young people...no parents...the best way to "get out of the hood"...Hmmmm, how about...UAF. Didn't hear to many attacks on them when the Basketball team was slinging dope.
If you think it's only the military. You are an idiot, end of argument.
Yota: "So, is there a difference between stirring the pot and trying to increase awareness?"
Yes, Yota, big difference. You posting what you heard by your neighbor is rumor since it cannot be backed up by tangible fact. You weren't there to verify what you are suggesting is going on here on base.
And you cannot guarantee for a fact that your neighbor's account is 100% accurate and without prejudice either.