Alaska voters put mining over fish
Published Wednesday, August 27, 2008
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Stumble It!ANCHORAGE -- Alaskans were given an option Tuesday when voting on the Clean Water Initiative in the primary election: mining or fish.
They chose mining.
With more 84 percent of votes tallied, the measure was losing with more than 57 percent of voters rejecting it.
Brian Kraft, a lodge owner and member of the Renewable Resources Coalition that fought for the initiative, said the mining industry was guilty of fear-mongering and spreading mistruths about Ballot Measure 4.
"I think that there was a lot of misrepresentation about potential losses of jobs or mining shutdowns, which is absolutely absurd. The initiative had plain language right in it that stated that it would only pertain to mines that would adversely affect salmon spawning streams and drinking water."
Ballot Measure 4 would impose two water quality standards on any new large-scale mines in Alaska. Had it passed, it would have restricted large, new mines from releasing toxic pollutants into water that would adversely affect the health of humans or salmon.
The ballot measure defined toxic pollutants as substances that will cause death and disease in humans and fish.
Opponents of the initiative say if it had passed, it would have killed large-scale mining in Alaska.
Supporters say the initiative was needed to save Bristol Bay's wild salmon streams from the Pebble Mine, a huge copper and gold deposit poised for development near Bristol Bay.
Renee Limoge, spokeswoman for Alaskans Against the Mining Shutdown, said what voters understood was that the ballot measure would have affected other mines, not just Pebble.
"We are thrilled that Alaskan voters have spoken and they have made it clear that mining is part of our history in the state and part of our future," she said.
Location is the problem. Pebble is near some of the world's most productive salmon streams.
Opponents claimed that the initiative posed a serious threat to Alaska's economy. They say mining accounts for over 5,500 jobs and nearly $200 million a year in state and local tax revenues.
Supporters say the bigger threat is to the Bristol Bay salmon fishery, which they say provides over 12,000 jobs and contributes over $250 million annually to Alaska's economy.
They say one toxic spill from the mine in an earthquake prone area could permanently damage the state's reputation for producing untainted, healthy fish.
Barbara Thurston, an insurance consultant from Juneau, said she's worried about the affect large-scale mining could have on fisheries, not just Pebble.
"I'm concerned that Alaska fisheries could be destroyed if we don't have this. Even if it's not specific (to Pebble Mine), it's critical. I think we've got to protect the water," she said.
Mark Johnson, co-owner of Vicky's Joke Shop in Juneau, said the state of Alaska already has the regulations needed to protect water quality and fish.
"I don't think we need any more bureaucracy," he said.
Laura Hamilton, of Chugiak, said she was against the ballot measure for the same reason.
"I think the laws are already there," she said.
Two companies, London-based Anglo American PLC and Vancouver, Can.-based Northern Dynasty Minerals Ltd. are spending hundreds of millions of dollars to develop Pebble. Preliminary drilling indicates Pebble is a world-class deposit of gold, copper and molybdenum.
Kim Conley, a 46-year-old dentist from Chugiak, said she lived for more than five years in Dillingham and fears what Pebble could do to the region.
The mining companies, which outspent ballot measure supporters in the campaigns leading up to the primary, wouldn't have fought it as hard as they did if water quality was something they weren't worried about, she said.
"That whole area is so tied to the salmon ... it is crazy to put Pebble there," she said. "I think it could devastate the place."
Community Discussion
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Nice to see the voters put reason over emotion and voted this silly measure down....hope the lodge owner loses his pristine view in the process
Great headline on this, though....typical
Bad Headline it is. It's not about choosing mining over water, there are already restrictions and laws, governing mining in Alaska and all are required and monitored to ensure the are adhering to the laws, already inplace. Ballot measure 4 would have shut down all mining in Alaska.. Someone please keep the liberals from taking over our state..
So when Pebble is developed, and there is a spill (which is almost guaranteed when looking at the track record of these things) and the fish are impacted, and like the Sound, jobs are lost, will everyone go back to these stories and see what was written? Congratulations to the Mining Lobby, you ran an effective campaign in the same tone as the Republicans in 2004. Get people afraid, spread mis-truths. I'll watch for the news in the future when the spill happens and at least be able to tell my grandkids I wasn't one of the idiots.
Time will tell....... who the fear monger is/was
Amen, Morpheus. More people should have read what the measure was really about rather than just watch TV. And when big business ruins the area as EXXON did to the Sound in 1989 and gets away with it, I don't want to hear any crying from the idiots.
I'm with Morpheus as well. It's absurd to think that measure would have shut down all mining in the state. Absolutely absurd. I, too, will be watching for the spill, or earthquake, or accident, and mourning the fishing jobs (not to mention the subsistence families) as they get swallowed up by chemicals.
365AKLady, you and Morpheus both seem to be the idiots. People who did read the measure knew that it stunk. It was totally unclear, it required legislation to be written later and nobody knew what the results of that writing would be. The campaign for it was the group telling lies and trying to mislead the public about it only being about Pebble.
You both make mention of the Sound, yet the fish from the Sound have a higher selling price than Bristol Bay fish. And how do you think Exxon "got away with it"? They paid over a billion in the cleanup effort. Much of that money went to locals who were affected by the spill, helping to mitigate their losses. Damages were paid to those affected by the spill. What Exxon managed to avoid was paying punitive damages on top of actual damages. Why, pray tell, should people get an added bonus on top of what they had already collected. Punitive damages are assessed in order to teach a lesson, in almost twenty years since there has not been a repeat of the spill. It just may be that they learned a lesson and made changes to prevent it happening again. You talk about them like they enjoy losing all that oil, paying out billions and receiving a black eye in public opinion.
This was a victory of truth over misrepresentation.
"Greenies" cannot put forth an issue without cloaking it in lies and deceit.
They cannot help themselves; deceit is ingrained in their personna.
It is gratifying to see that reasonable people are not falling for the lie anymore.
I'm with mit on this one.
What? Question 4 was about industry over wildlife? That's not what the Ballot Measure said! No fair. I want a do over. I thought it was about vague restrictions to prevent reasonable mining operations so that is why I voted NO!
Interesting that the Sound was ruined in '89 by Exxon, and a shame that it will never be the same. What area is leading the halibut derby this year?
No one can really say whether or not there will be a leak into bristol bay, as morpheus is saying. They have different ways of preventing leaks and spills compared to 20 years ago. Ballot number 4 was deceptive, it may not have shut down existing mines right away but under what the new law would've been had it passed, it would have prevented existing mines from renewing thier permits and they would've closed 3-5 years down the road. Mining is one of the main jobs that has supported our economy for years, just as fishing. Alaska laws are already in place to protect our fish and wild life and they've worked. This was not people choosing mining over fishing it was people choosing what was right.
I noticed this is the AP, which I would assume is also responsible for the ehadline. Could it get more inflamatory? Lets have a contest to see what the most inflamatory headline for this story could be..how about "Alaskans choose cold mechanized destruction of land over loving and caring salmon".
Way to go AP, and way to go DNM for printing it (tongue oplanted firmly in cheek)
Voted 'no' on this measure... But be careful of the rhetoric. Pogo Mine has had issues. Chat with the recreational cabin owners on the Goodpaster River who KNOW, not speculation, or bluster, just facts.
Glad it failed but.....
Next issue with these large mines is to tax them at the same rate as the oil companies. No multi-billion dollar mining without paying the State. Mining gets off real easy when it comes to State taxes.
this makes me sick. big money bought this vote. bristol bay reds are the last of the big samon runs left in ak. does anyone want to preserve this ? i think real alaskans want to but are subject to big money propaganda that never stops. the people or fish never had a chance, vote or not. if it would have been the yes vote winning we would have been voting again as soon as it could have been voted on, until the mining industry got the vote they wanted. you can't beat big money with true ethics anymore. makes me sick to see ALASKA getting ready for another screwing,after the EXXON award {i have never felt a slap in the face with more pain,basicaly a good square kick to the nuts of AK} I feel we have left the door openfor these kind of actions. what, if anything, are we leaving for the future of our children or their children? when our resoures are gone will those companies be here to help us like we help them? THINK ABOUT IT!
...all this talk of "spills"...the ballot measure contained no language regarding "spills", it was about illegal, intentional dumping of toxins into fish streams. That's already illegal. We don't need the ballot measure to keep Pebble mine from being built as it's been planned. I agree that the proposed Pebble mine is too big and too dangerous to allow. As written, ballot measure 4 would have been used by enviro-fascists to shut down mining in Alaska, just as they use the "threatened" status of polar bears to shut down oil exploration. Anyone who thinks otherwise is a dupe. We already have strict state and federal laws that govern dumping anything into wetlands. You can't even dump a pile of rocks in a wetland without a permit.
Fact, republicans follow the big man. Fact, the republican part platform worships Bush as their leader. Fact, democrats are about facts. Fact, democrats work hard to ensure a strong government and stability and try to tax the rich man the republicans seem to protect. Fact, republicans seem hooked to oil, thank conservatism. Fact, republicans seem mad at Russia for attacking Georgia even when Bush had no right to invade and DESTROY Iraq's gov't, and where the hell are the WMDs?
The republicans seem very desperate this year and I love it. Its your choice, just make sure you take in consideration everything. Candidates can make empty promises Democrat or Republican.
also lets see what sarah and todds kids, and grandkids do for fishing in bristol. the gov didn't give a crap about the fish she said so by saying "no on 4 ". i wonder if they'll ask "what happend to all those fish grandma? "
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This was never directly about mining or fish. It is about the direction of the future economic development of Southwest Alaska. Is it going to continue to be fishing based, or mineral based.
If Pebble is developed, they will build a road to tidewater. A short ferry ride to Homer, and they are connected to the road system. A road to the northwest and you've connected to Bethel.
Side roads off the main road would give access to other mineral deposits and possibly to oil and gas reserves.
What does this all mean? 50 years from now, Dillingham could be like Cordova. Just another little fishing village off the road system. Not because the fish are gone or poisoned, just because the money is being made north of there and the road bypasses Dillingham.
If you have money invested in Dillingham infrastructure this prospect is something that you fear and fight.
So it fish vs. mining? Yes but only in the most indirect sense. It is a fight for the economic future of SW Alaska.
I voted no but have to agree with internationa we need more taxes out of the big mines once the gold and other minerals are gone they are gone forever and with gold at 8 to 9 hundred an ounce they are making huge profits and lots of it is leaving the state so lets get our fair share.
Opsamk
Fact: Democrats follow the big girly man. Fact: the Democratic part(y) platform? worships Jesus Harold Obama as their leader. Fact: Democrats don't use facts, but instead are governed by emotion. Fact: Democrats work hard to ensure a strong government because they think people can't be trusted to decide things for themselves. They need big mommy government to take care of them. Fact: The whole bloody world is hooked to oil. Without it you'd starve to death, or freeze to death, and have a really boring life. You wouldn't be able to do anything but play with dirt, naked. (Well, maybe you could kill an animal with rocks and take his fur, but you couldn't DO that could you?) Fact: EVERYTHING you can think of is either made from or utilizing an oil product, or uses an oil product to get to the store so you can buy it. The store needs oil products to keep the lights and refrigerators on. Fact: %80 of this state's revenue comes from oil. Fact: Russia's actions are jeopardizing our interests in the region. Fact: Sooner or later EVERYONE has to pick a side. Whose side are YOU on?
Democrats are barely if at all beating Republicans, even under clouds of scandal. More people voted for Ted Stevens yesterday than they did Mark Begich. Just make sure you take in consideration everything...like staying even remotely on topic when you post.
It's a sad day for Alaska!!!
Only those with binary brains think that the issue is fish OR mining. Fully endowed adults know that we can have fish AND mining.
Each one of you reading this is 100% dependent on the minerals that giant mining corporations produce for you. Maybe it's time for Alaskans to step up and start producing the essential materials that form the very basis of our quality of lives. This is far more responsible than forcing this activity on somebody else, far away.
You can't fish without the minerals.
In making my decision on this vote, I consulted a mining engineer, who explained, with references, that laws already exist that make it virtually impossible for a spill to occur. The water coming out of these mines is cleaner (by law) than the water going in, so we're fine. If the initiative supporters are so concerned about Pebble Mine, they should come back with something specifically geared toward Pebble Mine. Otherwise, Alaska cannot afford to lose nearly 6,000 jobs just because these people don't understand the science and engineering involved in mines. We need to use our heads, not our emotions, in making decisions. Unfortunately, we all know there are plenty of voters who don't do that. Fortunately, this time, seems some thinking people went to the polls. Thank you all for becoming educated on the subject and voting accordingly.
Headline is right on. Truth hurts. Pebble people and state bureacrats are emboldened and permit approvals will occur at random intervals. Most such approvals will require zero public notice (just like when the ND claimed this public land) and the next thing you know soo much time and money will have been invested that when public notice is finally required (if ever) the deal is cooked.
This is state land and it's beyond the ability of the state to regulate Pebble. Too bad Jimmy Carter didn't create an ANILCA protected area for the entire BB watershed.
Bring on the lawyers it's our only hope now.
skinfish -- you don't have a clue as to what's going on, what's required, or what's real do you? You need to pay attention more and stop acting like a goof off. Go down to DNR and pick up copy of state mining regulations and read it. NDM has been following the law explicitly. They've held a number of public meetings. It's people like you who want to subvert the law or just make cr*p up as you go. You don't even have the presence of mind to know that the state IS regulating mining. Do you know that there is a Division of Mining and that this is their only job? They have an office in Fairbanks, Anchorage, and Juneau. Suggest you go see them and ask your questions instead of making stuff up anonymously.
Rockstar - You got the DML&W right, but the rest of your post is cr*p. How are you any different from the men and women at DNR?
Now we know.
Who it is that puts people ahead of fish.And who the terrorists that want to destroy the foundation of the American economy.Our natural resource industries.
All the lies.All the devious methods of winning.All the drama.All the media.Doesn't work when you let hard working Americans vote on an issue.
Common sense and logic won this time.We can never believe we have heard the end of the eco-terrorists.They are among us and will try something else to disrupt the American way of life.
One of the cold,cruel facts of life,is that the fish will live and prosper.Modern day mining AND logging are operated at an extremely responsible level.The operators take the industries to another level above and beyond the call of the regulators.Simply because they have to live and work in the same environment as the concerned parties.
If you can't believe the words,go look for yourself.One of the biggest faults in mining and logging is the operators get so caught up in running a business and all that goes with that,they forget to educate the public about their business.It only takes seeing for yourself and listening to the facts.
Please get involved and learn the truth.Just doing that will help stop the eco-terrorists from destroying our great nation
"It's a sad day for Alaska!!!"
---------
Yep! Just like the building of the Alaska pipeline?
rockstar - how shall I judge you? Maybe you should volunteer and work as a regulator for free. You know, test your own convictions.
You'd have to get a university degree first in a relevant field like geology, engineering, chemistry, or biology. Then gain some experience in the field and compete with others. Are you willing to do this or just sit at your minerals-based computer and gripe?
What a pathetic headline. Sounds like Mary Pemberton of the Associated Press is really unhappy with the way the vote went yesterday. "Mining or fish" was the choice and we chose mining, she says.
Perhaps Ms. Pemberton believes all the evil miners are supposed to go out and kill all the fish now?.......or maybe the fish, upon hearing the result of the vote will finally sniff the all the cyanide in the water and turn belly-up.
"Mining or fish" was the choice.
We chose mining and now all the fish must die. Just as when the evil rougnecks moved into Prudhoe and TAPS was built, it exterminated the caribou.
"Mining or Fish?"
"Oil or Caribou?"
"Airports or Eagles?"
Surely now, the sky will fall and take all the bald eagles down with it as well.
Enough already! I have had it with the envy, greed, and prejudicial posts on both sides of every issue in this paper. Who cares if the miner's only think about money, the greenies are nuts, that the editors are baiting us, or what country the next big jobs producer comes from as long as those jobs are here. I can empathise with those that were on the loosing side of the measure, but people please stop letting your prejudices and emotions cloud your arguments about everything. The fact is that the majority of the voters saw what they saw and voted it down. The rest saw something different.
If you are truly concerned about the water quality in Bristol Bay, go take a sample right now before the mine begins operation and take another one once they are going full bore. Do the state a favor and monitor the issue and if the water quality is unhealthy after the mine starts, then you can start a petition that I will sign. It is amazing that a company that specializes in removing stuff from the ground can be diversified enough to purify water and repair the damage they do. I don't think anyone who reads this actually treats their personal waste to make it environmentally friendly before they dispose of it, they either burn, flush, or take it to a land fill (also refered to as rural landscaping HA!). The fishing industry doesn't leave the water as clean or cleaner when they are operating either.
Claims of special interests are just bigoted regardless of the issue. If you have facts present them, rhetoric and inuendo is a poor way to make a point, but facts presented will help everyone make informed decisions. I like to add a little sarcasm to my posts occasionally to lighten the tension, and I appreciate when others do as well, but some posts I read leading up to the primary were complete and obvious fabrications. For those writing their opinions, know this: people aren't stupid, they will check your story and you will get busted.
A psuedonym and a right to free speech aren't a license to lie or demean others that don't agree with your opinion. If you can't convince them, then either you are not presenting a logical argument, or they are not open to a logical conclusion. I again thank the News Miner for the comment pages as I have been without TV since December until today and the only other media resource available was the radio. The civil discourse and sometimes childish rants are a wealth of information about the facts, history, and future of Alaska and it's residents.
TundraRebellion: More likely a disgruntled moose hunter will get drunk and shoot a hole in the ozone layer and we'll all be in for a cold winter.
As I always say about voting....if you are not sure, or have a question about it, then vote no. Im glad people voted no, as this bill was very questionable.
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