Chena Hot Springs touts hydrogen use at Renewable Energy Fair
Published Sunday, August 24, 2008
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CHENA HOT SPRINGS — Hot dogs had added value Saturday at Chena Hot Springs Resort’s third annual Renewable Energy Fair.
Offered for free by fair hosts and resort owners Bernie and Connie Karl, the hot dogs looked like any normal ones, and hungry fair-goers could top them off with all the fixings.
But these dogs were grilled in a specially designed barbecue that’s friendly to the environment, using energy created on-site without emissions and without fossil fuels — pure, clean hydrogen.
Resort campground host Jerry Brinke volunteered to man the grill and was impressed with his first foray into hydrogen cooking. After roasting 700 franks by early afternoon, he issued a semi-professional assessment.
“The hydrogen cooks the hot dog very well,” he said. “It cooks the outside and also steams the inside, and you get no charcoal in the taste. They taste like good old hot dogs.”
The fuel comes from Chena Hot Springs Resort’s own hydrogen production unit. Water is electrolyzed — separated — using power generated from the resort’s geothermal plant. The process breaks down water’s H2O molecules into hydrogen, or H2, and oxygen, O, explained Leif Schneider with the American Hydrogen Association Northwest, which was contracted to install the new unit.
The oxygen is vented into the atmosphere, where by nature it cleans the air. For demonstrations Saturday, some of the hydrogen flowed directly into a modified generator outside the production unit. The generator emitted a steady, soft plug of heat where a gas-fed model would have spewed stinky, warm exhaust.
“With more time, we’d like to capture the heat,” Schneider said, eyeing yet another way to increase energy efficiency. A coal-fired power plant is about 30 percent efficient, returning 30 cents for every dollar spent, he said. In contrast, a basic hydrogen unit runs with roughly 60 percent efficiency.
Ways to get more out of every process and to find uses for every byproduct are two goals that seem to drive many people involved in renewables. Booths and lectures at the fair offered exactly that — ways to turn waste into power, tapping into river and tidal energy, harnessing wind to spin turbines.
Fresh ways to lighten or eliminate emissions on highways also were explored.
Eventually, Chena’s new hydrogen production unit could pump its valuable product into resort stoves, displacing propane. For now, some of the hydrogen is fed into bottles Schneider has nestled in the bed of a hefty Ford F-250 pickup. A few conversions under the hood — like modifying the fuel injectors — and he’s running 100 percent on hydrogen, tooling down the road at 25 miles per gallon, up significantly for the 17 mpg maximum obtained with gasoline.
Other vehicles on-site were big draws for folks wandering vendor displays between presentations on hot topics. Michael Golub presented a series of autos outfitted to run on electricity, collecting the curious in clusters under the hoods.
ABS Alaskan Inc.’s booth brought plenty of people to a halt to investigate small-system setups that could work in a single home.
ABS Alaskan provides renewable energy and remote power products, and fired up interest in a working solar panel demo and its EconoBurn wood gasification systems for home use. Touring the fair, Rick Stovarsky of Fairbanks stopped for a while to evaluate the solar setup. He said the technology seemed doable, but the costs were probably too high to turn his interest into commitment just now.
Enthusiasm built through two hours of keynote speakers and motivating words from host Bernie Karl, who encouraged Alaskans with ideas and knowledge to make the magic happen.
Bartz Englishoe attends plenty of renewable energy fairs and said it’s great to see the strong momentum toward alternatives to fossil fuels. Good presentations and one-on-one time with vendors seemed to spur fresh energy at the Saturday event, he said. He compared the surge of interest in renewables with the public support for the U.S. space program during the Kennedy years, and said progress now will depend largely on what people demand.
“Now, we can have the same thing,” he said. “The U.S. can take the lead for the world. We have the know-how, the education to do so. ... It really is the wave of the future.”
Community Discussion
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Congrats to Connie & Bernie for leading the pack.
The state should offer groups like this the $500,000,000.00 it's giving TransCanada. Renewable resources will take us farther than any gas line.
Interesting to say the least. I still like my hotdogs with a little charcoal taste :)
Let's see some numbers there, Bernie and Leif. As in: full costs of producing hydrogen from, in the words of the article "using power generated from the resort’s geothermal plant".
As much as the concept of hydrogen "combustion" is entertaining, it is only when you accurately can demonstrate that you are generating more kWh than you are in consuming them (ie, in isolating that hydrogen through the electrolyzation of water) that you can deserve a place in a Renewable Energy Fair with this wonderful and alluring violation of the Laws of Thermodynamics.
Everyone talks a good talk on desiring alternate energy - yet we don't see anyone except CHS resort actually doing anything about it. It's expensive - I'll give it that. I started adding solar panels to my home a few years ago and intend to add a few more before this summer is finished. I can't afford to buy a ready made full home system from ABS - but - ABS has been extremely helpful as I piecemeal a system slowly together panel by panel.
Still, why all the talk - so little acton? If this were new ATV, snowmachine or rifle technology folks would be all over it. There seems to be a community or area wide distrust of solar and wind power. The solar cells of 20 years ago certainly had no place in Alaska - but the new ones now pack more watts per square in and yield energy even on a cloudy day.
This is certainly one area where a 500 million dollar grant would go a long way to help people out - adding solar to homes.
I found this article to be interesting.
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publicatio...
Not only is the production of Hydrogen quite costly, but storage and shipping are costly as well. Add that up and it's still a very niche market.
Oh, and did you know that BP, Shell and Chevron are all on board for Hydrogen as energy. Think yer getting around the oil companies do ya?
It may be fun for the Hot Springs to do, but for the rest of the country, Hydrogen is still way off. Sorry.
More on this topic -
http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html...
Hydrogen 'Hot Dogs'
Mr.Green: " . . . Hydrogen is still way off."
The World has more than a sufficient number of skeptics!
Most of the rest of us are aware that the longest journey begins with a single step!
Dr. McAllister, AZ Converted a 'Datsun' pickup's factory ICE for use with either Gasoline or Hydrogen.
Dr. McAllister's 'H2 converted Datsun' has been in operation for almost 40 years!
Dr. McAllister's Datsun pickup was consistently failed by Emission Testing in Arizona.
The reason: "Emissions 'Testing' equipment detected NO emissions!
At significant cost to Dr. McAllister, the issue was eventually resolved!
Mr. Green, Many roads lead to Rome; none of them should find routing via The Middle East!
Many are the technological 'breakthroughs' . . .
The Laws of Physics were 'penned' by Mortals, using the best concepts of their era . . . 'Nano' Science offers
a plethora of paths of study which were non-existent in the nineteenth Century.
'Nano Diamonds' significantly reduce friction; which alone requires less 'motive force', to accomplish the same work!
BMW, has/is experimenting with generation of electric
with mechanisms which capture and convert engine exhaust heat; another 'net gain' from 'energy' which has already been expended.
Electolysis via either "'Synthetic' Photosynthesis" and/or "algal H2 production", permit 'On Board'
H2+O production . . .
Envision a closed system, wherein the energy present in the exhaust heat is captured, converted to electricity, etc. and condensed back into 'fuel/feedstock' for the 'On Board' H2+O 'production facilities'!
H2's flash range 4% to 75%, may even be enhanced, via additional 'O' to optimum 'detonation' (flash) range!
Mr. Green: Quit your Skepticism and help push the streetcar to the next 'overhead conductor'!*
See: India Times ???date??? ie.
". . . Passengers disembark from trolley and push the trolley through the section of track where the 'overhead conductor is missing'."
It IS a task, which will require astounding effort of astronomic proportion!
Mr. Green:
"Quit Bitchin' and start Pitchin' ! ! !
Roy Stewart,
Phoenix AZ
P.S. A Decade ago, only a 'Fool' would have attempted to "sell 'Photovoltaic Panels' in Fairbanks; located within the Latitudes of the 'Midnight Sun'!
PV efficiency has passed another 'Latitude Mark' and is still headed North!
Ah, Mr. Stewart - so you live in Phoenix, AZ. Good for you, lots of sun. But you see, the land of the "midnight sun" doesn't have much sun when you need it most - the cold winter, when electric bills here skyrocket. And at that time of year, good luck with your solar crap. Yes, only fools do try to sell solar up here. You should also look into which major oil company owns most of the solar products out there. Give ya a hint - North Slope outfit.
I have a few photovoltaic products myself. Guess what? Still a ways off and rather expensive.
Most of these new technologies are just in their infancy, not gonna work yet. Yes, with time, maybe.
The only reason everyone is even talking about this crap is because some humans believe we are destroying the planet with Carbon emissions from "fossil fuels". The funny thing is, as I mentioned before, the "big oil" companies have already laid claim to Hydrogen. Hydrogen was going to be the next major fuel source back in the 70's. What happened? You see, when something is not very cost-effective no one wants it.
It's way to easy to be a skeptic these days - way too much bull____ out there. And skepticism is what drives change my friend. If everyone just accepted every little thing that came along without being a little skeptical, we'd never improve on things. One must ALWAYS ask questions and delve deeper than what the front page tells you.
And if we shouldn't build roads to Rome via the Middle East, can we drill ANWR then? Or maybe Nuclear deserves a second chance? Because until all of your renewable pipe-dreams come online, we gotta use something, right?
Now quite dreamin and wake up ya darn hippie.
Mr Green,
Nuclear! Thumbs Down; waste disposal gargantuan problem; and considering that waste from the initial processing, has yet to be safely sequestured, we can anticipate the probability of many 'Dirty Bombs'.
ANWAR! Drill NOW !
China is drilling North of Cuba; by the time our
DC Aristocracy authorize drilling off Florida, China will have drained the pool.
re PV in Fairbanks . . . the were in evidence in the Hydrogen HotDog article!
Nano-Tech is opening many new doors; many applications are already in production!
I repeat: A Journey begins with a single step!
Roy Stewart,
Phoenix AZ
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